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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Okuma > 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )
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  1. #1
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    124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    Hello All,

    While the lathe was running and in the midst of a sequence restart. The machine stopped and the following alarm came 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )
    The panel and CRT was still lit but no buttons and switches would work. Frozen.

    I restarted the machine several times and get the same alarm and again the panel wont respond to button presses.

    Any help would be much appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    check the "stroke end limit cancel" setting ( or /and tumbler ) first. The parameter is intended to use to move axis away from stroke end limit only. Try to move axis with manual knob to check if it is the case.
    check the "stroke end limit cancel" switch.
    Good ocassion to check stroke end limit switches - easy to do and gives important uderstanding what's .happening. Sometimes samurai is weared and chips collecting there and collection of dirt interferes with stroke end limit sensor. Must be mechanical swith with a little wheel at that machine. This is easy to check.
    It's also good to check user stroke end limits in parameters and system stroke end limits in parameters also. Easy to check and narrows the circle of suspection.
    If all hardware limit switches checked, parameter limits checked, there is still possibility for error to be in the settings. Check if you get this alarm in manual mode if it depends on axis position.
    It's possible that the special parameter allowing to override the stroke end limit is active.

  3. #3
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    Algirdas,
    Thank you! see my response. I have owned this machine for 25 years!

    check the "stroke end limit cancel" setting ( or /and tumbler ) first.
    PAUL: I cant get to the settings, because as soon as the machine starts the alarm appears and the panel is frozen. No buttons work.

    The parameter is intended to use to move axis away from stroke end limit only. Try to move axis with manual knob to check if it is the case.
    PAUL: The machine wont move, the panel is frozen, no switches, knobs, wheels or buttons work. So I cant get to the parameters.

    check the "stroke end limit cancel" switch.
    PAUL: I have never seen this switch, where is it located? Machine is 1982 year. OSP 5000 green screen, LS30-N lathe

    Good ocassion to check stroke end limit switches
    PAUL: Yes I will look at this, but the machine is clean and there are no chips near the switches, also the axis are mid travel and not near their limits. But I will check the limits switches anyway.

    It's also good to check user stroke end limits in parameters and system stroke end limits in parameters also
    PAUL: The panel is lit BUT no buttons or switches respond after start up. So I can not get to the parameters.

    Check if you get this alarm in manual mode if it depends on axis position.
    PAUL: I get to manual mode with the panel frozen on start up.

    The machine was running ok then I changed a tool offset to run a second finish pass, on the sequence restart the machine the alarm came.

    How do I get to manual mode and the parameters? Why is the machines panel locked on start up?








    Quote Originally Posted by Algirdas View Post
    check the "stroke end limit cancel" setting ( or /and tumbler ) first. The parameter is intended to use to move axis away from stroke end limit only. Try to move axis with manual knob to check if it is the case.
    check the "stroke end limit cancel" switch.
    Good ocassion to check stroke end limit switches - easy to do and gives important uderstanding what's .happening. Sometimes samurai is weared and chips collecting there and collection of dirt interferes with stroke end limit sensor. Must be mechanical swith with a little wheel at that machine. This is easy to check.
    It's also good to check user stroke end limits in parameters and system stroke end limits in parameters also. Easy to check and narrows the circle of suspection.
    If all hardware limit switches checked, parameter limits checked, there is still possibility for error to be in the settings. Check if you get this alarm in manual mode if it depends on axis position.
    It's possible that the special parameter allowing to override the stroke end limit is active.

  4. #4
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    Looks lke the problem should be described a different way.
    According th message on the OSP, the machine is ready to move away from the limit switch ( or system stroke end limit position ). It is normal, that OSP does not respond to any push buttons at this stage. The axis should move by manual knob, however.
    I understand, it is not the case. OSP does not respond at all. Right? If hydraulics is stopped as well?
    The "Stroke and limit cancel" tumbler can be at the tape reader panel or inside main control cabinet.
    The problem is not related to axis movement at all. Check the memory backup battery. Carefull. Okuma designed the special procedure for the backup battery replacement if you do it wrong. "Doing right" means to replace the battery not interrupting the voltage.
    Try to call that alarm some other way. Is it possible to start up the control without this alarm?
    Is there bar feeder interface installed?

  5. #5
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    I cant get to the settings, because as soon as the machine starts the alarm appears and the panel is frozen. No buttons work.
    hy right after power up, open and close the doors (as you would usually do i guess), then try to continue futher : perhaps this will enable some buttons, at least the jog wheel ...

    which axis is in overtravel : turret / tailstock ?
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  6. #6
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    The axis should move by manual knob, however.
    PAUL: Yes but does not. Hydraulics is on, drives on machine is otherwise ok. I can not clear the fault with the reset nor use the manual knob.

    OSP does not respond at all. Right? If hydraulics is stopped as well?
    PAUL: Machine is on, OSP does not respond, Hydraulics are on pump is on pressure is good.

    The "Stroke and limit cancel" tumbler can be at the tape reader panel or inside main control cabinet.
    PAUL: I looked for this, in the tape reader cabinet, no switch, also looked in the main cabinet, cant find a switch. Ive owned the machine for decades. cant say Ive ever seen this switch? (See pics)

    Check the memory backup battery. Careful.
    PAUL: The is new to me, where is the battery and how to replace carefully?

    Try to call that alarm some other way. Is it possible to start up the control without this alarm?
    PAUL: The machine starts fine, but the alarm is always on start up.

    Is there bar feeder interface installed?
    PAUL: Yes the is a bar feeder panel on the side, we have no bar feeder though. When I switch the manual / auto switch on the bar feed panel the ALARM flickers.









    Quote Originally Posted by Algirdas View Post
    Looks lke the problem should be described a different way.
    According th message on the OSP, the machine is ready to move away from the limit switch ( or system stroke end limit position ). It is normal, that OSP does not respond to any push buttons at this stage. The axis should move by manual knob, however.
    I understand, it is not the case. OSP does not respond at all. Right? If hydraulics is stopped as well?
    The "Stroke and limit cancel" tumbler can be at the tape reader panel or inside main control cabinet.
    The problem is not related to axis movement at all. Check the memory backup battery. Carefull. Okuma designed the special procedure for the backup battery replacement if you do it wrong. "Doing right" means to replace the battery not interrupting the voltage.
    Try to call that alarm some other way. Is it possible to start up the control without this alarm?
    Is there bar feeder interface installed?

  7. #7
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    since hydraulics is still on, looks like the axis movement is not inhibited.
    Is it possible to switch to manual mode? I didn't got the "The machine starts fine". Can you switch to manual, to MID-Auto Manual after OSP boot up ? Can You open Parameter after OSP boot up? I guess no.
    Check:
    - the rapid axis movement override on 50% and try 25% 75% 100%
    - the feed axis movement override on 50% and try 25% 75% 100%
    - the travel unit 1mm 10µm and 1µm
    try to move axis with a knob and try arrow push buttons.

    Tape reader picture is poor, can't see what description is on the top of tumbler with "ON' and "OFF". The view of main control cabinet gives no glue about main control unit ( CPU )
    The battery. What is the big black with the banner "Fragile" inside in the main control cabinet?
    Please, make detailed picture(s) of OSP face.

  8. #8
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    I would requalify the problem.
    Since no axis is on overtravel condition ( we don't know for sure without the screen with system coordinates and axis stroke limit parameter values ) the problem is that "axis overtravel cancel" is on. We don't know how and where. For this age machine it should be a tumbler.
    or
    The OSP goes to that wrong status by mistake, is frozen but powers on the hydraulic system ...
    One more question. Check if the contactor supplying power to spindle drive, the contactor supplying power to ZA drive and the contactor supplying power to XA drive turns on after OSP boot.

  9. #9
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    Is it possible to switch to manual mode?
    PAUL: No, I can not switch to manual mode, the panel does not respond, it looks on and AUTO is LIT. But with the stroke end alarm on the panel does not respond.

    I didn't got the "The machine starts fine".
    PAUL: I should say the machine switches on ok, hyd pumps pumping ok, panel light up ok. But panel is not responding to any button presses (no beeps) The green reset button I can hear the relay clicking but does not clear the alarm.

    Can you switch to manual, to MID-Auto Manual after OSP boot up ? Can You open Parameter after OSP boot up? I guess no.
    PAUL: No

    the rapid axis movement override on 50% and try 25% 75% 100%
    - the feed axis movement override on 50% and try 25% 75% 100%
    - the travel unit 1mm 10µm and 1µm
    try to move axis with a knob and try arrow push buttons.
    PAUL: None of the above is possible

    Tape reader picture is poor, can't see what description is on the top of tumbler with "ON' and "OFF"
    PAUL: See attached pic close view. There is no switch for limit cancel. There is a LED

    What is the big black with the banner "Fragile" inside in the main control cabinet?
    PAUL: Just a box of old Okuma parts, brushes etc

    Please, make detailed picture(s) of OSP face
    PAUL: See attached

    PAUL: I see the BDU servo drives, have the orange LED, "reset" LIT







    Quote Originally Posted by Algirdas View Post
    since hydraulics is still on, looks like the axis movement is not inhibited.
    Is it possible to switch to manual mode? I didn't got the "The machine starts fine". Can you switch to manual, to MID-Auto Manual after OSP boot up ? Can You open Parameter after OSP boot up? I guess no.
    Check:
    - the rapid axis movement override on 50% and try 25% 75% 100%
    - the feed axis movement override on 50% and try 25% 75% 100%
    - the travel unit 1mm 10µm and 1µm
    try to move axis with a knob and try arrow push buttons.

    Tape reader picture is poor, can't see what description is on the top of tumbler with "ON' and "OFF". The view of main control cabinet gives no glue about main control unit ( CPU )
    The battery. What is the big black with the banner "Fragile" inside in the main control cabinet?
    Please, make detailed picture(s) of OSP face.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_20210623_191124-3200.jpg   IMG_20210623_191142-3200.jpg   IMG_20210623_191346-3200.jpg   Stroke end panel tape reader.jpg  


  10. #10
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    Hi

    Probably another alarm is lurking behind alarm 124.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge."

  11. #11
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    I wonder about the wiring to the x servo motor years ago the connectors were bad so we hardwired to fix them. Hmmm

  12. #12
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    any of "Stroke end " indicators is on?.Attachment 465768 The top one is for X axis, the bottom one is for Z.

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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    Quote Originally Posted by rotec View Post
    I wonder about the wiring to the x servo motor years ago the connectors were bad so we hardwired to fix them. Hmmm
    Based on your description, I'd be checking the wiring. The Stroke End Cancel alarm is usually generated AFTER a Stroke end over has occurred, and the overtravel release switch has been flipped ON. Once ON, you would usually go to manual mode, hit RESET, and then move manually with the pulse handle away from the tripped axis limit. Since you say that it occurred during a restart, and it's not overtravel, the machine "thinks" the switch is ON. Check the wiring to the overtravel release switch in your electrical diagrams and see if the switch is ON in your CHECK DATA, EC INPUTS. (They should be listed in your Maintenance manual.) Fix the switch to be OFF, make sure you're not on any limits like Algirdas says, and press reset to clear the stroke end cancel alarm.

    On a side note, I think that vintage of machine may function like the E-stop is active if it is sitting on a stroke end limit, so you may want to ensure that you are not on one - they may be tied to the e-stop circuit. Of course nothing will move if in e-stop, but manual handle movement should be active when stroke end cancel is active and reset is pressed in manual mode. This allow you to get off the stroke limit.

    Best regards,
    Experience is what you get just after you needed it.

  14. #14
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    Algirdas, Back at the machine now!

    any of "Stroke end " indicators is on?
    PAUL: No, both these LED are OFF. When the machine starts, the hydraulics are good the, monitor comes up as normal, but nothing can move, no buttons or switches on the control panel work, no beeps. Cant switch from AUTO to MANUAL.

    PAUL: Now I think of it a few months ago I would get this same alarm on start up, but a restart of the machine would fix it. Now it is all the time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Algirdas View Post
    any of "Stroke end " indicators is on?.Attachment 465768 The top one is for X axis, the bottom one is for Z.

  15. #15
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    thank you, I got it! Just some of my thoughts.

    Typically when the machine does really over travel and hits a limit switch (or is that a soft limit?) one can hold on the over travel key, then reset, and using the pulse wheel manually back away from the OT switch. I've had that happen many times over the years.

    On this machine when THE (1) E-Stop is tripped the machine completely shuts down, monitor black!. But I am not getting this condition so I cant see how an e-stop is in play?

    However I think the machine is being tricked into thinking its in this condition. But then again if it were tricked would the LED in tape reader not indicate this and be ON? The LEDS are off.

    The wiring to the X servo motor is not great, I can see the harness hanging down, we hardwired that motor years ago after all the terminals were all corroded. Its it possible that a wiring fault in that harness could be the cause?

    Does this alarm come for both soft limits and hard limits ?




    Quote Originally Posted by OkumaWiz View Post
    Based on your description, I'd be checking the wiring. The Stroke End Cancel alarm is usually generated AFTER a Stroke end over has occurred, and the overtravel release switch has been flipped ON. Once ON, you would usually go to manual mode, hit RESET, and then move manually with the pulse handle away from the tripped axis limit. Since you say that it occurred during a restart, and it's not overtravel, the machine "thinks" the switch is ON. Check the wiring to the over travel release switch in your electrical diagrams and see if the switch is ON in your CHECK DATA, EC INPUTS. (They should be listed in your Maintenance manual.) Fix the switch to be OFF, make sure you're not on any limits like Algirdas says, and press reset to clear the stroke end cancel alarm.

    On a side note, I think that vintage of machine may function like the E-stop is active if it is sitting on a stroke end limit, so you may want to ensure that you are not on one - they may be tied to the e-stop circuit. Of course nothing will move if in e-stop, but manual handle movement should be active when stroke end cancel is active and reset is pressed in manual mode. This allow you to get off the stroke limit.

    Best regards,

  16. #16
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    Soft limits are double: user and system. System axis travel limit is (should be) very close to hardware limit sensor. The reaction of overtravel any of these limits could be the same - you need to move axis away from the limit position or change parameter or move the limit sensor away. Parameter change and change position of limit switch of course, are not recommended.
    Since no overtravel indicator is on, means, there is not a case of overtravel. For this age machine I think the indicators are related to hardware overtravel only. Software overtravel should be shown on the screen.
    Normally the OSP should be responsible. The present condition indicates the overtravel cancel status is atcive. We don't know where the overtravel cancel switch is.
    Maybe you need to turn and hold the key in the lock and move the axis ...
    The machine is on, looks like waiting the axis move.
    The wiring of X axis drive maybe has no inmpact. However, it's not good if there are corroded wiring terminals already. Contacts of connectors are corroded also. This could cause the control to be tricked into that state.
    I would try to seek the docummentation of this machine. Too many unknown factors.

  17. #17
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    Hmmmm!

    PAUL: The wiring on the X servo motor we fixed years ago because the terminals on that servo motor were corroded, we chopped them out and soldered the wires together. It may have nothing to do with it.


    Maybe you need to turn and hold the key in the lock and move the axis ...
    PAUL: I tried that days ago.

    PAUL: , Is it normal for the end stroke cancel ALARM to make the control panel become non functional? and what normally would be done to clear this Alarm to free the control panel from being frozen?

  18. #18
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    Is it normal for the end stroke cancel ALARM to make the control panel become non functional?
    We can't tell if it is non functional. Since the cancel of ovetravel procedure started ( as the alarm says ) many of other functions are disabled normally. It is normal, that nothing works but the axis movement. We don't know how to move - maybe some combination with push button or key in the lock together with manual movement knob.
    On the other hand there is no overtravel. Looks like overtravel cancel mode is activated by mistake or mallfunction.
    what normally would be done to clear this Alarm to free the control panel from being frozen?
    We need to find out how the ovetravel cancel mode is turned on ( and off ) . Tricky, because we don't see any tumbler as a candidate. There are just clearly marked tumblers for that age Okuma's as ususal.
    Maintenace manual of that specific machine would help a lot . . . or someone's advice who knows the procedure.
    Why the OSP is frozen? Maybe it's worth so check if the "Auto" push button is not stuck. The push button can be stuck or dirty or whatever causing constant activated state. Extremely low likely, but easy to check with multimeter.
    It is possible, that the problem comes from panel mallfunction.

  19. #19
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    the operator panel view:
    If there is the tumbler to swith manual axis movement from rotation knob to arrow push buttons?
    What is the marking of the very first key lock there?
    Is there any reaction to chuck close / open ( pedal ) command ?

  20. #20
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    Re: 124 ALARM-A stroke end limit cancel 1 (LS30-N OSP 5000 green )

    If there is the tumbler to switch manual axis movement from rotation knob to arrow push buttons?
    PAUL: Is tumbler the same a switch? In manual mode the arrows and pulse wheel are both on you dont have to swicth between them (i think) But of course with this alarm they both dont work.

    What is the marking of the very first key lock there?
    PAUL: Travel limit override. (see pictures may help)

    Is there any reaction to chuck close / open ( pedal ) command ?
    PAUL: No, chuck wont open, I had to remove one jaw to get that crank part out!!! HA!




    Quote Originally Posted by Algirdas View Post
    the operator panel view:
    If there is the tumbler to swith manual axis movement from rotation knob to arrow push buttons?
    What is the marking of the very first key lock there?
    Is there any reaction to chuck close / open ( pedal ) command ?

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