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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Tormach Personal CNC Mill > 18 cylinder radial engine project
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  1. #1
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    18 cylinder radial engine project

    I started a new engine project about 600 shop hours ago. Here is a link to a build thread that I doing for it.

    Another Radial - this time 18 Cylinders - Home Model Engine Machinist

    You might be particularly interested in the rear cover that I machined for it. You can scroll through the build to find it. It was probably the most complicated single part I ever made on my Tormach. I designed it in Solidworks and used Sprutcam to generate the tool paths. It has a number of complex fillets and splined surfaces and with the final scallop height set to .00015", I have to admit it taxed my software, my computer, and pretty much my ability to get the cutting simulation to run. It used so much memory, that evidently Sprutcam doesn't de-allocate, that I could only get one or two trial simulations to run before I had to quit and restart the application. The compile time was about 30 minutes on my 2.4 gHz 2 gbyte P4 (ok, I know it's an old machine), The cutting time on the machine was some 3 hours. It was my first use of the Tormach profiling cutter that worked amazingly well although I did have to modify it some so it wouldn't rub the finished part. Some light hand buffing with a Scotchbrite pad finished the whole outer surface to a mirror sheen. - Terry

  2. #2
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    Stunning work. That's using all your tools to their last bit of capability. After this, what's next, a working scale Space Shuttle Main Engine?

  3. #3
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    Magnificent! I'm always amazed anyone has the patience for such complex and difficult projects. Looks like it will be absolutely beautiful when done!

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  4. #4
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    Excellent job !

  5. #5
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    Wow!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayhugh1 View Post
    ...I could only get one or two trial simulations to run before I had to quit and restart the application. The compile time was about 30 minutes on my 2.4 gHz 2 gbyte P4 (ok, I know it's an old machine)... Terry
    Sounds very similar to my experiences trying to generate very fine stepover profiling cuts in sprutcam. Basicly one in four attempts to compile and simulate the operation will be successful. I thought it was a PC performance issue but it seems no more successful on my far more powerful PC at home. I think there is just some logistical limitations within sprutcam that you can't fix no matter how much RAM you throw at it. I've taken to splitting such operations out of the main program, and keeping simpler 2d profiles, pockets, holes etc. together. Having more than one complicated waterline/plane operation in one program just seems like a recipe for headache.

    I'm curious about the sprutcam programing you used. I've come to find that there seems to be a couple ways to skin the 'complex faces' problem, but I'm not sure which really makes sense. Your results look fantastic. Did you use a waterline, plane or something else?

  7. #7
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    This is some amazing work.

  8. #8
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    I'm still heavily involved with this project and have just made another part on my Tormach that might be of interest to the group. It is 3-D impeller:

    Another Radial - this time 18 Cylinders - Page 7 - Home Model Engine Machinist

    There is a series of photos there showing the machining steps and some text to go along with it. I used Sprutcam for the CAM, SolidWorks for the CAD, and the Tormach profiler tool which I am quickly becoming a big fan of. I'm finally getting beautiful surface finishes with a long reach tool. - Terry

  9. #9
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    Re: 18 cylinder radial engine project

    This project is one of a kind!
    Decided I waited long enough and ordered a mill after reading this thread and a few others.
    A year later the detail and write-ups of this complex project still amaze me. "mad skills"
    md

  10. #10
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    Re: 18 cylinder radial engine project

    I finally finished this project after about 1-1/2 years of spare time work. I ended up with just over 1000 CAD/CAM files using SolidWorks and Sprutcam for my Series 1 PCNC and 9x20 lathe. There are nearly 900 photos of the construction over on the HMEM website. You can see a video of the completed engine running here:




    Terry

  11. #11
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    Re: 18 cylinder radial engine project

    Absolutely awesome!

  12. #12
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    Re: 18 cylinder radial engine project

    Gorgeous work, as always. Will you be bringing any of your engines to NAMES in Detroit this April?

    Mike

  13. #13
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    Re: 18 cylinder radial engine project

    Sure runs nice! much better than most.. I started the Hodgeson 9 some time ago, but got distracted by other projects...

  14. #14
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    Re: 18 cylinder radial engine project

    Quote Originally Posted by mayhugh1 View Post
    I finally finished this project after about 1-1/2 years of spare time work. I ended up with just over 1000 CAD/CAM files using SolidWorks and Sprutcam for my Series 1 PCNC and 9x20 lathe. There are nearly 900 photos of the construction over on the HMEM website. You can see a video of the completed engine running here:



    Terry
    Thanks for taking time to post your most awesome project!
    This project inspired me to keep using my drawing skills and add some new skills to make what I design.
    I figured I was doing well with a little over 200 different parts drawn, cam and milled in one year!
    Those 200 designs = 600 files or 1 drawing, 1 cam and 1 g-code. As some people use separate files for each side of part this could have been up to 6x more files to manage.

    Again, this project is so complex it left me wondering if I could even draw some of the parts "like cylinders and heads" with the free form and style. And I have spent most of my life drawing stuff

    Thanks again, I learned so much following this project and review it often for fixturing ideas Love your epoxy- Spanish oak mounting with sand blast clean up!
    md

  15. #15
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    Re: 18 cylinder radial engine project

    That is amazing. I have watched this video last year. When I was kit I loved making gas powered RC planes and boats.
    I can't remember seeing but do you have a CNC lathe or a lathe that you converted to CNC.
    Thanks for posting and let us know what you are up to now.
    -Nathan

  16. #16
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    Re: 18 cylinder radial engine project

    Amazing work! I really like the improvised fixtures that you came up with, definitely going to "borrow" some of your ideas (we love this term in the software industry!).

    Can you link the Tormach profiling tool you mentioned earlier? I would be interested to read a little more about it.

    Again, great work and thank you so much for spending the time to document it. I tried to keep up a blog for my gun plumbing work with SLR pictures and write-ups, but unfortunately I only lasted about 6 months. Sometimes it's easier just to be lazy and cut the chamber rather than deal with the camera knowing you still have to review all of the pictures and write text to accompany the few you select =) Unfortunately, it's like being lazy and skipping one day at the gym.

  17. #17
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    Re: 18 cylinder radial engine project

    Quote Originally Posted by mayhugh1 View Post
    I started a new engine project about 600 shop hours ago. Here is a link to a build thread that I doing for it.

    Another Radial - this time 18 Cylinders - Home Model Engine Machinist

    You might be particularly interested in the rear cover that I machined for it. You can scroll through the build to find it. It was probably the most complicated single part I ever made on my Tormach. I designed it in Solidworks and used Sprutcam to generate the tool paths. It has a number of complex fillets and splined surfaces and with the final scallop height set to .00015", I have to admit it taxed my software, my computer, and pretty much my ability to get the cutting simulation to run. It used so much memory, that evidently Sprutcam doesn't de-allocate, that I could only get one or two trial simulations to run before I had to quit and restart the application. The compile time was about 30 minutes on my 2.4 gHz 2 gbyte P4 (ok, I know it's an old machine), The cutting time on the machine was some 3 hours. It was my first use of the Tormach profiling cutter that worked amazingly well although I did have to modify it some so it wouldn't rub the finished part. Some light hand buffing with a Scotchbrite pad finished the whole outer surface to a mirror sheen. - Terry
    Well after half hour I fond I was already a member of this site.
    So 18 cylinder radial engines from Ageless engines I too am about to start convertin* drawings to Solid works. I talked to a rapid prototype shop near me he said he could print the entire solid works model as a single item that I could breake out like a plastic model. I would not have to make a part tree like a plastic mold. So I’ll give him a couple test assemblies to see how this works. I’d like a desk top plastic model. That comes apart.

    I’ve been in SW for many years but haven’t looked at it since I retired in0 3 So I’m behind. I wound up with a home version some how that has been updated to 2016 on Microsoft 10. I ran into an issue yet to be resolved . All my old models open read only so it requires a save new name. There is a fix but I just haven’t tried it yet I do have a reasonable desk top computer. I could probably purchase my sons laptop that runs a similar system. But I don’t really need it nor have another use than cad.

    Anyway I’ve had this 18 cyl radial in mine even before Lee’dad passed away. I’ve also got a big interest in the 28 cyl R4360.i finally found the patent drawing of the crankshaft and the floating counterweights. It has another main bearing in a bulkhead just like the 18 cylinder motor. I also have the book on the Wasp Major. It describes how the spacing and twist was created and the reason)Collin) . It must have been a severe headache for all those engineers back then. One of m6 late uncles was one of them.

    So being a drag racer and very close to the twin engine cars. I had a complet motor and coupler ready to install in our car when NHRAdeleted the class. It was a big disappointment to us.

    So the thought occurred to me how about coupling tw 14 cylinder motors with a flex plate. After all modern bracket race cars use thes all the time .it would only need to be 1/16” thick 413 which is cheap and readily available from race car shops. Some modifications would need to be made but that’s why we have cad. When you look at the 28 cylinder crank you can see that’s just about what p&w did. Join two cranks into one piece. When it was done the engineer that created it found the crank too heavy gor the specs so he removed a bunch of weight. This caused som dynamic vibrations that required an engineer wit more titles behind his name than mine has letters. Thus the movable counterweights. A model crank even a one piece one would not have this as the model one would be very stiff and only have to handle 10-1# hp give or take and only for a short run time.

    So I’m here to stir up more interest and offer constructive info, I hope. I’m also a tool make so I like it when I can make what I design.

    Byron

  18. #18
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    Re: 18 cylinder radial engine project

    Quote Originally Posted by bentwings View Post
    Well after half hour I fond I was already a member of this site.
    So 18 cylinder radial engines from Ageless engines I too am about to start convertin* drawings to Solid works. I talked to a rapid prototype shop near me he said he could print the entire solid works model as a single item that I could breake out like a plastic model. I would not have to make a part tree like a plastic mold. So I’ll give him a couple test assemblies to see how this works. I’d like a desk top plastic model. That comes apart.

    I’ve been in SW for many years but haven’t looked at it since I retired in0 3 So I’m behind. I wound up with a home version some how that has been updated to 2016 on Microsoft 10. I ran into an issue yet to be resolved . All my old models open read only so it requires a save new name. There is a fix but I just haven’t tried it yet I do have a reasonable desk top computer. I could probably purchase my sons laptop that runs a similar system. But I don’t really need it nor have another use than cad.

    Anyway I’ve had this 18 cyl radial in mine even before Lee’dad passed away. I’ve also got a big interest in the 28 cyl R4360.i finally found the patent drawing of the crankshaft and the floating counterweights. It has another main bearing in a bulkhead just like the 18 cylinder motor. I also have the book on the Wasp Major. It describes how the spacing and twist was created and the reason)Collin) . It must have been a severe headache for all those engineers back then. One of m6 late uncles was one of them.

    So being a drag racer and very close to the twin engine cars. I had a complet motor and coupler ready to install in our car when NHRAdeleted the class. It was a big disappointment to us.

    So the thought occurred to me how about coupling tw 14 cylinder motors with a flex plate. After all modern bracket race cars use thes all the time .it would only need to be 1/16” thick 413 which is cheap and readily available from race car shops. Some modifications would need to be made but that’s why we have cad. When you look at the 28 cylinder crank you can see that’s just about what p&w did. Join two cranks into one piece. When it was done the engineer that created it found the crank too heavy gor the specs so he removed a bunch of weight. This caused som dynamic vibrations that required an engineer wit more titles behind his name than mine has letters. Thus the movable counterweights. A model crank even a one piece one would not have this as the model one would be very stiff and only have to handle 10-1# hp give or take and only for a short run time.

    So I’m here to stir up more interest and offer constructive info, I hope. I’m also a tool make so I like it when I can make what I design.

    Byron
    The Home Model Engineer Machinist forum has tons of discussion on building model engines and Terry Mayhugh has many detailed build threads there.

  19. #19
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    Re: 18 cylinder radial engine project

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelHenry View Post
    The Home Model Engineer Machinist forum has tons of discussion on building model engines and Terry Mayhugh has many detailed build threads there.
    Terry's builds are one of my favorites on the net. I followed along as he did a 12 cylinder merlin and a V twin. He is currently building a 4 cly Offy and is down to just a few parts to finish it.

  20. #20
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    Re: 18 cylinder radial engine project

    I have the plans for the Hodgeson 18 cylinder engine. I have not started it yet but it looks like a challenge. I read a build log from some guy on another site a while back. The quality of the work and the written descriptions were outstanding. He made his own cylinder design which was a good cosmetic improvement over the original plans.

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