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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Fadal > 1998 Fadal VMC15 XT NSK roller rails for X and Y
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  1. #1
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    1998 Fadal VMC15 XT NSK roller rails for X and Y


  2. #2
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    I bought a Fadal VMC 15 XT and am looking at replacing the X and Y rails with NSK roller rails. Was seeing if anyone has done this and what the thoughts are about roller rails vs balls? I am rebuilding the machine and as of now have replaced or rebuilt everything. The machine is not going to look like a normal Fadal as far as the color, going a little over the top to personalize it for me and what I like.

    Thanks for reading
    Jeff[

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    Re: 1998 Fadal VMC15 XT NSK roller rails for X and Y

    Adding more photos of the work. Had to pull the counter weight as you can’t put the head back on with the counter weight in. The counter weight chain and rollers were wasted and the bearings were flat spotted from 22 years of use. I am replacing the green screen with a LCD 13.3” with speakers that will fit nicely in the existing hole. I have the calmotion lancnc so that I can send my G-code files through Wi-Fi from my office laptop direct to the controller or direct to the 8gig sandisk. Lot of work but is really fun and the finished product will run good and be accurate. I am now looking at $18,000 for my total investment in this mill including buying it. I have replaced the spindle motor, spindle, all axis rails, had the ball screws rebuilt, and so many other parts.
    Attachment 460748
    Attachment 460750Attachment 460752

  4. #4
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    Re: 1998 Fadal VMC15 XT NSK roller rails for X and Y

    Quote Originally Posted by ballistic42 View Post
    I bought a Fadal VMC 15 XT and am looking at replacing the X and Y rails with NSK roller rails. Was seeing if anyone has done this and what the thoughts are about roller rails vs balls? I am rebuilding the machine and as of now have replaced or rebuilt everything. The machine is not going to look like a normal Fadal as far as the color, going a little over the top to personalize it for me and what I like.

    Thanks for reading
    Jeff[
    Very interesting project, thank you for detailed photos.

    Are you looking for more speed or more rigidity or just matching OEM spec with rails?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmo View Post
    Very interesting project, thank you for detailed photos.

    Are you looking for more speed or more rigidity or just matching OEM spec with rails?
    I am looking for more rigidity hence rollers. I like the NSK ones as they have a good history as a good brand. I am looking to see if anyone has made these types of swaps and what they went with.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballistic42 View Post
    I am looking for more rigidity hence rollers. I like the NSK ones as they have a good history as a good brand. I am looking to see if anyone has made these types of swaps and what they went with.
    If someone has the specs of the X and Y bolt hole spacing that would be awesome as I would like to buy rails and trucks Before I take the table off. I have the Z off and have new rails for that, they are PMI’s. I am not a fan of PMI but that’s what Fadal sent me. If someone wants to know how that all went I will share the information. Trying to make the machine better than factory to make as accurate or better than new. I am redoing this machine to learn how it works as I will buy another one as you can’t beat the price for what you end up with.

  7. #7
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    Re: 1998 Fadal VMC15 XT NSK roller rails for X and Y

    Quote Originally Posted by ballistic42 View Post
    I bought a Fadal VMC 15 XT and am looking at replacing the X and Y rails with NSK roller rails. Was seeing if anyone has done this and what the thoughts are about roller rails vs balls? I am rebuilding the machine and as of now have replaced or rebuilt everything. The machine is not going to look like a normal Fadal as far as the color, going a little over the top to personalize it for me and what I like.

    Thanks for reading
    Jeff[
    Roller rails will improve the rigidity but the Z axis is normally the best place to add roller rails I have done many different machines Z axis with roller rails, I use / have Star Roller rails on hand, Roller rails need more mounting holes they are not a straight bolt in place so this may be a problem if they don't match what you have the normal rail is 60mm centers the roller rails of the same size are 30mm centers
    Mactec54

  8. #8
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    Re: 1998 Fadal VMC15 XT NSK roller rails for X and Y

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Roller rails will improve the rigidity but the Z axis is normally the best place to add roller rails I have done many different machines Z axis with roller rails, I use / have Star Roller rails on hand, Roller rails need more mounting holes they are not a straight bolt in place so this may be a problem if they don't match what you have the normal rail is 60mm centers the roller rails of the same size are 30mm centers
    Do you know how tall the stock rails are on the X and Y for the VMC15? I think they are 29mm but don't have the machine in front of me.

  9. #9
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    Re: 1998 Fadal VMC15 XT NSK roller rails for X and Y

    Quote Originally Posted by ballistic42 View Post
    Do you know how tall the stock rails are on the X and Y for the VMC15? I think they are 29mm but don't have the machine in front of me.
    Figured out the height of the rail for the X and the Y rails. The rails are 48MM tall that is measured from the Top of the Carriage to the bottom of the rail. I should of been more accurate in my question earlier. I talked to the NSK district rep and with his help I figured out that the RA35 roller rails will work. The only thing is the center to center holes on roller rails are 30mm and the bearing rails are 60mm. That being said I just won't put a bolt in the hole of the rail that has no hole in the casting but will still cap the rail holes with the plastic bolt covers. The deciding factor will be if I can stomach the cost once I find that out. I think the machine will be more precise and rigid with the roller rails. We will see. Let me know if anyone has a good connection for these rails.

    Thanks,

    Jeff

  10. #10
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    Re: 1998 Fadal VMC15 XT NSK roller rails for X and Y

    Quote Originally Posted by ballistic42 View Post
    Figured out the height of the rail for the X and the Y rails. The rails are 48MM tall that is measured from the Top of the Carriage to the bottom of the rail. I should of been more accurate in my question earlier. I talked to the NSK district rep and with his help I figured out that the RA35 roller rails will work. The only thing is the center to center holes on roller rails are 30mm and the bearing rails are 60mm. That being said I just won't put a bolt in the hole of the rail that has no hole in the casting but will still cap the rail holes with the plastic bolt covers. The deciding factor will be if I can stomach the cost once I find that out. I think the machine will be more precise and rigid with the roller rails. We will see. Let me know if anyone has a good connection for these rails.

    Thanks,

    Jeff
    I said that in my post that the holes are 30mm centers this changes depending on rail size 35's are a big rail for that machine

    That would be a waste of using a roller rail if you only use half the mounting holes, the purpose of the extra holes it for rigidity without doing the extra holes the roller rails won't be much better than a regular preloaded ball linear rail

    The machine will be more rigid not more precise if you mount the rails correct
    Mactec54

  11. #11
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    Re: 1998 Fadal VMC15 XT NSK roller rails for X and Y

    Understand the bolt hole issues which I feel the same way about that. As far as the 35's being to big for that machine, that is what came with these VMC's from the factory. 35's are on the X, Y and Z.

  12. #12
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    Re: 1998 Fadal VMC15 XT NSK roller rails for X and Y

    Very cool project you are taking on... Fantastic rebuild so far and the machine will be sweet when your done i am sure. If you can pull off going to roller verses the ball rails and keep all the other alignments working, more power to you. Personally i would just stick with the same rails, not sure you will gain that much rigidity for the effort. I have 10 Fadals. I have a 1997 15xt. I do a lot of cast-iron work, and the 15xt i have will push a 2" spade drill thru the cast-iron at 300rpm and 2 inch a minute 7" deep thru the part and not using coolant thru with a G81 cycle. Big fan of the Wye-Delta 7500 drive on these machines. I still hope you can do the Rollers like i said cool idea. Another thing to consider in the future rebuilds especially if you are looking for rigidity is to go with the 15 and the15xt's Higher end Twins which are the 2216L and the 3016L everything about them is basically the same as the 15 and 15xt the main difference is the Column and Base are Cast iron verses the steel weldment Column and Base(the base is filled with Cement to dampen absorb noise and vibration ) while cutting.

    Anyways Good Luck Looking Great and looking forward to the finish project. If your in the San Fernando valley look us up some of the original fadal guys work here come over and meet the "L" .

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodney247 View Post
    Very cool project you are taking on... Fantastic rebuild so far and the machine will be sweet when your done i am sure. If you can pull off going to roller verses the ball rails and keep all the other alignments working, more power to you. Personally i would just stick with the same rails, not sure you will gain that much rigidity for the effort. I have 10 Fadals. I have a 1997 15xt. I do a lot of cast-iron work, and the 15xt i have will push a 2" spade drill thru the cast-iron at 300rpm and 2 inch a minute 7" deep thru the part and not using coolant thru with a G81 cycle. Big fan of the Wye-Delta 7500 drive on these machines. I still hope you can do the Rollers like i said cool idea. Another thing to consider in the future rebuilds especially if you are looking for rigidity is to go with the 15 and the15xt's Higher end Twins which are the 2216L and the 3016L everything about them is basically the same as the 15 and 15xt the main difference is the Column and Base are Cast iron verses the steel weldment Column and Base(the base is filled with Cement to dampen absorb noise and vibration ) while cutting.

    Anyways Good Luck Looking Great and looking forward to the finish project. If your in the San Fernando valley look us up some of the original fadal guys work here come over and meet the "L" .
    Rodney thanks for the reply. I am not 100% sure if I will do the roller rails or not. I know with my mag drill I can drill and tap the holes so that part is not an issue. Like I have been told I to don’t think it will make the machine any stiffer. It’s an idea that I have been tossing around. I have wired it up so I can send my files from my lap top direct to my calmotion lancnc by calmotion. For $80.00 I will not have any wires to trip over. I bought an LCD 13.3” display for the pendant update I am doing. Cutting the bump out on the back of the pendant to make it flat and cutting down on the weight. This is a fun project and the mill will be better than new when done. For a hobby shop mill it will be looking good and operate precisely. I have pretty much replaced almost everything. I am going to take your recommendation for the next one as I get what you mean about the rigidity. I like the linear rails as I would not have the patience for the turcite.

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    Re: 1998 Fadal VMC15 XT NSK roller rails for X and Y

    You are 110% correct on the rails vs turcite . We have 2 5020A's and a 4020A with the x y rails and they are very accurate the tables are perfect from the factory .0005 flatness... They just never change especially if taken care of. 5020A high column 7500 (wye - delta) (many people are not aware of the wye delta config that Fadal utilized to get the power from the Low rpm and High rpms by changing the motor wire configurations) is my favorite machine. Huge travels and can still squeeze into a garage if the will is there but just barely

  15. #15
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    Does anyone know the original NSK NH linear ball rails part number. The part number tells the length of the rail, accuracy, and preload designator.
    Example NH351408EM2PCZ_F_25_5
    The number will be on the rail or on the side of the carriage.

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