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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Spindles / VFD > 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/motor
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  1. #1
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    220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/motor

    Yes, just like the head line. Is it possible?
    Are the any things to take into consideration?

    More general. It is a DELTA VFD 1500 watt single phase in> 3 phase out. I need to power up a 3phase servo drive and motor in my 220v home.

    Please help.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    Quote Originally Posted by graupnerhansen View Post
    Yes, just like the head line. Is it possible?
    Are the any things to take into consideration?

    More general. It is a DELTA VFD 1500 watt single phase in> 3 phase out. I need to power up a 3phase servo drive and motor in my 220v home.

    Please help.

    Thanks in advance.
    No you can not do this, the VFD does not give you AC power from it's 3 Phase output, a VFD can only run a 3 Phase AC motor
    Mactec54

  3. #3
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    Is this a 3 phase input drive for a larger motor? BLDC or DC brushed motor?
    Do you have part numbers etc? motor size?
    If you mean use a VFD to run a BLDC motor, I have tried this with little success, Hitachi claimed that theirs can do it but when contacted mentioned it had to be customized, there is also one from Baldor that does it.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    No you can not do this, the VFD does not give you AC power from it's 3 Phase output, a VFD can only run a 3 Phase AC motor

    Oh sorry sorry. I made a mistake. I mean of course it is a DC servo drive and motor.

    Is it then a problem?

    Thank you for your reply

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    Is this a 3 phase input drive for a larger motor? BLDC or DC brushed motor?
    Do you have part numbers etc? motor size?
    If you mean use a VFD to run a BLDC motor, I have tried this with little success, Hitachi claimed that theirs can do it but when contacted mentioned it had to be customized, there is also one from Baldor that does it.
    Al.
    Thank your for your answer Al.

    I made a mistake in the headline. It is a DC motor.

    More specific I have a YASKAWA SGMGV 450W motor and YASKAWA 3R8A 500W motor drive for it.

    I need to run it in my home. Is a any problem using a VFD for powering up the servo drive that powers the motor ?

    Thanks in advance.

  6. #6
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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    Quote Originally Posted by graupnerhansen View Post
    Oh sorry sorry. I made a mistake. I mean of course it is a DC servo drive and motor.

    Is it then a problem?

    Thank you for your reply
    If the Servo Drive is expecting AC power supply input, then yes it would still be a problem, who is the manufacture of the Servo Drive and model number, you may be able to run it from your 220v Ac supply Direct R Hot and S connection, just 2 wire connection and Ground/Earth connected to the correct Ground/Earth terminal, if the Servo Drive needs Ac input
    Mactec54

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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    if your dc servo motor is driven from a three phase controlled rectifier, then it needs to see a clean sine wave from all three phases. if it is a more modern PWM drive, then it may run on single phase 240vac with reduced output, you might be able to run it from a 340 volt dc power supply as well.

    you would be better off using an induction motor as a rotary phase converter to generate your three phase power.

    you can get a clean three phase sine wave from any standard VFD, if you buy a 5% "load" reactor, and hook up three delta connected capacitors after the load reactor. however, the three phase output is not a clean sine wave relative to the dc side of the vfd. what this means is you need an additional common mode choke.

    additionally the ac power you get out is not referenced to ground, or neutral, it might even have a dc offset.

    If you have a 240:240v three phase (or three single phase transformers) then you don't need the common mode choke and you can ground reference the 3 phase output however or wherever you want. you still need the 5% load reactor and three delta connected capacitors.

  8. #8
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    Quote Originally Posted by graupnerhansen View Post
    T
    I made a mistake in the headline. It is a DC motor.

    More specific I have a YASKAWA SGMGV 450W motor and YASKAWA 3R8A 500W motor drive for it.

    I need to run it in my home. Is a any problem using a VFD for powering up the servo drive that powers the motor ?

    .
    If the drive is rated for 200v 3 phase you may be able to run it off of 200v 1ph it sounds like you have access to this voltage.
    I would not risk trying a VFD to power the drive.
    Usually the only issue you would see is if the motor were to run at maximum rated power for any length of time, brief peaks into the 450w should not be an issue.
    Al.
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    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

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  9. #9
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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    Quote Originally Posted by graupnerhansen View Post
    Thank your for your answer Al.

    I made a mistake in the headline. It is a DC motor.

    More specific I have a YASKAWA SGMGV 450W motor and YASKAWA 3R8A 500W motor drive for it.

    I need to run it in my home. Is a any problem using a VFD for powering up the servo drive that powers the motor ?

    Thanks in advance.
    You can not use the VFD to power the Yaskawa Servo Drive, As I said the Yaskawa Servo Drive will run from your 220v single Phase supply, you don't need to have 3 phase input, make sure you wire it correct
    Mactec54

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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    I have access to 220VAC 50hz power. Means if I connect this YASKAWA servo drive to single-phase 220VAC (even it is original to be used with 200VAC 3 phase) It would work?
    What downsides are there? and will there be any remarkable trouble?

    Yaskawa specify in their manual that this drive 3R8A cannot run on single-phase. They have many other drives that can, but not this one.

    I see you wrote that I should wire it correctly. In which way would you recommend ? thank you a lot.

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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    Thank you Mactec54.

    I have access to 220VAC 50hz power. Means if I connect this YASKAWA servo drive to single-phase 220VAC (even it is original to be used with 200VAC 3 phase) It would work?
    What downsides are there? and will there be any remarkable trouble?

    Yaskawa specify in their manual that this drive 3R8A cannot run on single-phase. They have many other drives that can, but not this one.

    IWhat would happen if I run it continiously on 450W ? And why does it even work with 220VAC singlephase in the first place? Thank you for your answer Al.

  12. #12
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    The common input for a 3ph drive/VFD is a 3ph rectifier, and if so will work with 1ph, just that the stored DC Capacity is lower which translates to the drive possibly not be able to reach maximum power at high torque demand levels.
    At lower demand levels you may not notice a difference.
    There could be other design factors that prevent the 1ph operation.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
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  13. #13
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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    Quote Originally Posted by graupnerhansen View Post
    Thank you Mactec54.

    I have access to 220VAC 50hz power. Means if I connect this YASKAWA servo drive to single-phase 220VAC (even it is original to be used with 200VAC 3 phase) It would work?
    What downsides are there? and will there be any remarkable trouble?

    Yaskawa specify in their manual that this drive 3R8A cannot run on single-phase. They have many other drives that can, but not this one.

    IWhat would happen if I run it continiously on 450W ? And why does it even work with 220VAC singlephase in the first place? Thank you for your answer Al.
    There is a Phase Voltage Sensor before the Rectifier that may be looking for the 3rd phase, there are some ways to trick it so see if L1 & L2 power it up L1 being where you put the Hot wire, there is also the control to wire ( the Brain ) that you have to power also L1C & L2C this you will have to check to see if it is for 220v or 24V dc input this is important to get this right, you will smoke the input to the Brain if you don't get this voltage supply correct

    Don't forget the Ground/Earth wire

    The Spec's for the Drive do say it can't be run on Single Phase, but is worth a try you won't harm anything
    Mactec54

  14. #14
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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    graupnerhansen

    So if you can't get it running then something like this will be your only option

    HD 1 3 HP Static Phase Converter Mill Drill Saw Made in USA Single to Three | eBay
    Mactec54

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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    graupnerhansen

    So if you can't get it running then something like this will be your only option

    HD 1 3 HP Static Phase Converter Mill Drill Saw Made in USA Single to Three | eBay
    the only thing that would do is fool the servo drive into thinking it has three phase, if it can even do that.

    if you buy one of those things, you could run a three phase induction motor, and with run capacitors you can get the third leg up and produce pseudo three phase that way.

  16. #16
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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldon_Joh View Post
    the only thing that would do is fool the servo drive into thinking it has three phase, if it can even do that.

    if you buy one of those things, you could run a three phase induction motor, and with run capacitors you can get the third leg up and produce pseudo three phase that way.
    With one of these things he will have all the 3 phase power he needs to run the servo drive, they have a balanced 3ph output

    Why would you want to run a 3Ph motor to get an unsatisfactory 3 phase supply not to mention the waste of energy
    Mactec54

  17. #17
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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    With one of these things he will have all the 3 phase power he needs to run the servo drive, they have a balanced 3ph output

    Why would you want to run a 3Ph motor to get an unsatisfactory 3 phase supply not to mention the waste of energy
    those things are a start capacitor and a potential relay.

    a "three phase" motor "starter" at best
    and a gimmick/magic box that burns out motors at worst.


    if they actually produced three phase they would put "phase perfect" out of business.

  18. #18
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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldon_Joh View Post
    those things are a start capacitor and a potential relay.

    a "three phase" motor "starter" at best
    and a gimmick/magic box that burns out motors at worst.


    if they actually produced three phase they would put "phase perfect" out of business.
    And you have experience with using these Static Phase Converters, There are many different manufactures that make them, with thousands in use, I would love to see some of the installs that you have done with them to make those kind of statements, what you are saying is total BS

    Two different types of single to 3ph power,for different purposes, I have a 100 amp Phase Perfect, Do you, Static Phase converters have been around a lot longer than Phase Perfect has, it did not stop them building their units, the Static Phase converters have advanced over the years, and work very well for someone that does not have the money for a Phase Perfect
    Mactec54

  19. #19
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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    where to begin.

    how about their website.

    "
    For light to moderate starting or running loads only.
    Intended for wye wound motors. Some delta wound motors may operate but will produce 50% of their nameplate HP.
    Motors will produce 2/3 of rated HP.
    Special Loads:
    Lathes 3 HP and larger must have a clutch and be started or reversed only while disengaged.
    May be used for air compressors but should have the motor pully size reduced by 1/3 in diameter. Alternately, a motor that is 50% larger may be fitted."

  20. #20
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    Re: 220V single phase VFD 3 phase output for powering a 200V 3phase AC Servo drive/mo

    Quote Originally Posted by graupnerhansen View Post
    I have access to 220VAC 50hz power. Means if I connect this YASKAWA servo drive to single-phase 220VAC (even it is original to be used with 200VAC 3 phase) It would work?
    What downsides are there? and will there be any remarkable trouble?

    Yaskawa specify in their manual that this drive 3R8A cannot run on single-phase. They have many other drives that can, but not this one.

    I see you wrote that I should wire it correctly. In which way would you recommend ? thank you a lot.

    from what i can tell, it is the motors that are specified as 200 volts, not the drive, which makes sense because you need additional headroom, i think the drives are intended to run off of 240vac, but i can't find it in the literature.

    anyhow, these are modern drives, they will run off of single phase. the only question that remains is can they handle full output while doing so.

    additionally, the drive has to compensate for higher ripple voltage, the manufacturer may not want to deal with the headaches associated with guaranteeing their drives can meet the advertized specifications while running on single phase.

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