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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Benchtop Machines > 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill
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  1. #1
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    Jun 2007
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    3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    So i got me this ginormous 3D printer that prints 400x400x450mm and the first thing that came to my mind was... pizza!

    After I ate the pizza, I thought maybe i could print patterns for a little benchtop sized cnc - something to be the next generation home build platform to take over form the g0704 / bf20 type machines, especially with the current machine prices being driven way up due to economic.. well, let's be blunt, stupidity.

    Has anyone ever cast from prints? I was intending to use ABS as it seems to be cheap, durable, heat resistant and easy to glue up and bondo smooth. I'd like to hear from some people that have done printed patterns for any type of sand casting.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    145

    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    I’ve never used the burn out method but as patterns with or without draughts they are fine to use when sandcasting
    (Painted) you can even delete the Pattern inside a block, split the block and fill with wax for a pattern if your using castable
    refractory molds used in jewelry/ statue etc.

  3. #3
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    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    Cool

    This will be strictly as a reusable (within reason) sand casting pattern, for iron. So no burning out and no wax.

    My main worry is if the pattern will maintain its form when compacted with warm or hot sand.

  4. #4
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    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    Well you could print passages into your print to insert metal rods for rigidity if you wanted but I have always had enough left to machine.

  5. #5
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    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    OK

    I'm waiting for the $16 abs to come back in stock, then ill give it a try.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2015
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    1422

    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    I'd be leery of doing this, myself. Apart from the fact that there are (infinity) ways of making a master faster, warping is a huge issue with large prints and I simply wouldn't trust a square model on the screen to turn into a square master on a larger print. Especially with ABS.

    At least with PLA you can print cold with a layer fan, a much lower shrinkage factor and a stiffer material more likely to hold its shape.

    But I'd be more inclined to use a fairly easy working, homogeneous timber.

  7. #7
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    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    Quote Originally Posted by dharmic View Post
    I'd be leery of doing this, myself. Apart from the fact that there are (infinity) ways of making a master faster, warping is a huge issue with large prints and I simply wouldn't trust a square model on the screen to turn into a square master on a larger print. Especially with ABS.

    At least with PLA you can print cold with a layer fan, a much lower shrinkage factor and a stiffer material more likely to hold its shape.

    But I'd be more inclined to use a fairly easy working, homogeneous timber.

    Printer is enclosed / heated, so the print itself wont be an issue. Only the usage of said print.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    5728

    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    Quote Originally Posted by ihavenofish View Post
    Cool

    This will be strictly as a reusable (within reason) sand casting pattern, for iron. So no burning out and no wax.

    My main worry is if the pattern will maintain its form when compacted with warm or hot sand.
    Have you ever done sand casting? It doesn't involve the use of warm or hot sand (unless you live in Phoenix). The pattern will retain its form just fine, but as was pointed out, that could be a warped form. You do want to provide draft in the pattern, or it will tear up the sand when you try to remove it.
    Andrew Werby
    Website

  9. #9
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    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    I know a fair bit about sand casting but have not personally done it. This will be done in resin bond most likely at a local foundry. It's been a while since i discussed this with them so i don't remember all the details.

    Again, a warped print is not going to be the source of any issues here.

  10. #10
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    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    Well, seems the right day to pop this back to the top... sigh.

    I got my cheap and free ABS delivered today. I've been printing a bit in ABS and warping has not been an issue. You do get some distortion, but its fractions of mm's, and nothing that would impact a casting and cant be sanded and filled smooth.

    So what type of machine should we cast then?

    Purely going on my own personal needs right now, i want a very small machine that is enclosed, sound insulated, and can fit on my desk. This will limit travel some, but perhaps widen the audience, and make it more viable for people to build on their own.

    X 8"
    Y 6"
    Z 8"

    nose to table 12"
    nose to column (with cover) 7.5"
    table size 12" x 6"

    alternate swappable or adaptable heads for 80mm water cooled ER20, 80mm water cooler ISO20, 80mm belt dribe ISO20, 80mm R8 (for TTS).

    fully enclosed with a 3d printed / lasered enclosure it should be under 24" cubed.

    total assembled weight, under 150lb - easily liftable with 2 people - movable by one with a hand cart.


    any thoughts to add to this?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
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    339

    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    (Mini) Mill-Turn machine tool, please. There are wayyy too many milling and lathe benchtops already... its becoming, like, epidemic (chinese this, chinese that, etc)
    Go! Time to be creative and to innovate - I'll buy one of those Mill-Turn for sure. Thank you very much!

    (subscribed, totally cool thread)

  12. #12
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    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    Mill turn ive actually designed one. It was a very different idea, but maybe, its actually perfect for this concept.

    It was a small standardised pallet machine. It had x 100x100x100mm working envelope. It was built like a mori NTX mill turn, where the head has XYZ, plus B axis (swivel head), and the table was a C axis that could hole a pallet, or a lathe chuck. the C axis was optional, you could just put in a dummy plat and have a rigid 4 axis machine (swivel head) OR 3 axis if you replace the swivel with a fixed plate. it also had fdm printing capabilities, but that's something that's not really needed anymore as you can buy good printers for $299.

    People who owned one would be able to share code and models and files through a community website, and make things for other people who didn't have machines.
    Maybe as an open project other people can handle the community part, and we can do some form of version control on the machines to put them in compatibility pools since in diy form they would become variable.

    Main downside is it requires custom spindles as nothing off the shelf would fit, or be cost effective.

  13. #13
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    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    Quote Originally Posted by ihavenofish View Post
    Mill turn ive actually designed one. It was a very different idea, but maybe, its actually perfect for this concept.
    Oops! you've been quoted :cheers:

  14. #14
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    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    hahaha

    Now you can blackmail me in 3 years when this never gets finished :P
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails mill_4x4x4_v200 v171.jpg  

  15. #15
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    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    Quote Originally Posted by ihavenofish View Post
    hahaha

    Now you can blackmail me in 3 years when this never gets finished :P
    lol. They just received a mill turn at the (bigger) shop here and I'm literally drooling on its sync capabilities. Makes any 3/4/5ax milling machine look&feel like old fashion hand drills... those with an electrical cord, ya know :/

    (subscribed man)

  16. #16
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    Nov 2012
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    145

    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    If you were worried about warping you could print a hole through the pattern and insert a rod for stiffness. With sandcasting there is cleanup to do so a little warpage wouldn’t be noticed. The type of sand is more important playsand is too rough I use a masonary sand which is much finer I believe it was $8.00 for 100 lbs.

  17. #17
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    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    This will be resin bond sand at a foundry. This won't be a back yard job

  18. #18
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    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    so were not going to do a mill turn... yet.
    want to start with something nice and basic.

    i think it will be a miniature variation of a brother tapping centre. where the basic mill sits at the core, and everything can be added onto it in stages

    i shall call it "lil brudder"


  19. #19
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    Aug 2019
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    339

    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    w/ high speed servo driven tool changer? if so I'm keeping my thread subscription

  20. #20
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    Re: 3D printed patterns for casting a benchtop mill

    Same turrent changer, all the fingers 3d printed in nylon and ABS.

    Maybe servo driven - we will see whats easiest to build and control. My older brothers are actualy driven by a geneva mechanism. They are very easy to run in linuxcnc using a mapped M6 gcode routine. Only the new ones are direct servo drive.

    The real one sits on a cast aluminium frame mounted to the column. The gearbox and "core" of the turret is also aluminium. We will have to debate if any of those should be cast, or if they could be straight printed.

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