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  1. #1
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    #9 spindle fault

    I purchased a Fadal some time back for home shop. It has been used about a dozen or so times in past few months always ran fine. Today I was running a part and when came to tool change it z up and stopped. No fault showed, but would not change tool. I went to manual and joged to cs. manual input tool change and faulted. I turned off and restarted tool changed manual input. I deleted drill so no programed tool change. No tool in spindle started program tool changed ran profile of part comped off z up stopped again. It turned off spindle but coased to stop faulted again.
    What do you think?
    Logos

  2. #2
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    any ideas where to start?

    ?
    logos

  3. #3
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Do you have documentation that explains what Alarm #9 is? Is there any further description?
    Is there alarm lights on the spindle drive? Does it only occur after a Z move?
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  4. #4
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    First thing I'd do is check the air pressure. Only time I've had a z fault was at tool change because I forgot to turn on the air.

    May have a bad solenoid, or a plugged air line as well.

    Assume you have the umbrella style changer?

  5. #5
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    I will check what book says about fault #9. I went back out today and ran it again. It will run whole program tool change and all if I keep speed down under 500 rpm and small tool. I put in a face mill and it would fault at m5. It seems to free wheel after m5 and the control must read rpm as being there and no power so it faults. What is it that stops spindle afer m5? I checked air pressure was 85 psi at machine. The fault is at spindle not z axis I did not word that very well. ( I lose my train of thought tring to type).
    Thanks
    logos

  6. #6
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    It almost sound like it is a problem with the spindle accel/decel rate, if after an M5, the decel causes overvoltage or similar then the spindle shuts off and the then coasts, the same if you program a high rpm and it causes the spindle to shut down on acceleration.
    What type of spindle is it, DC, AC or AC induction motor with VFD?
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  7. #7
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    Pg 257 of the users manual

    "#9 axis fault: spindle fault line down.

    The fault line signal down to the inverter should stay high during spindle operation. If the signal is held low when the spindle is running then this error messege is displayed. "





    Maybe Al can decipher that for you if need be. I don't even know what a fault line signal is.

    Hope it's cheap to fix. Good luck.





    P.S. you can download all of the Fadal manuals on line on their site.

  8. #8
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    spindle drive is "week" is it a Baldor drive?

  9. #9
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    The manual shows that this is the inverter fault line output. The cheapest test off the bat is, if the motor is a regular induction motor, hook it up direct to the three phase at its rated voltage and check for current on each phase, if that is ok and everything appears free, no binding then suspect the inverter.
    It could also be a defective encoder, but there should be an encoder fault flagged if this were the case.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man
    It almost sound like it is a problem with the spindle accel/decel rate, if after an M5, the decel causes overvoltage or similar then the spindle shuts off and the then coasts, the same if you program a high rpm and it causes the spindle to shut down on acceleration.
    What type of spindle is it, DC, AC or AC induction motor with VFD?
    Al.
    Do those drives have a braking resistor? It sounds a bit like a possible open circuit on this giving an overvoltage condition when decelerating.

  11. #11
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    It has a Mitsubishi, Freqrol-Z300 6500 rpm invreter.
    In cabinet where inverter is there is list showing where jumpers go for different voltage. 240 is marked 230 next then 210 listed on down. I ask Fadal man when I picked up machine ( he was installing new replacement for the one I bought) if that should be changed for my 220, he said should be fine at 240. That it would run anywhere 208 to 240.
    Logos

  12. #12
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    You can down load the complete manual from the Mitsubishi site http://www.meau.com/Files/IB_NA_66274-A.PDF
    Does the drive include the parameter unit? This is the program keypad, As you can test the unit by running manual etc, also you should be able to see the fault code either on the P.U. or the inverter display.
    The inverter diagnostic display should give you more of an idea what the fault is.
    As I mentioned, you can exclude the motor and load as the problem by moving the three phase that goes to the motor over to the inverter input 3 phases, this will run the motor at the base speed as soon as power is applied to the inverter.
    You can also take a amp reading of each phase to see if it is unbalanced.
    If the motor and load checks out OK, it may point to the inverter as the problem.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  13. #13
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    Thanks, it does have keypad on inverter. I will start up and let it fault an check for inverter fault. What do you think about voltage in at 240? The internet in shop only hooks up at about 32kbps so will download at house.
    thanks again
    logos

  14. #14
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    If your tap is set to 240 and you are running on 220, your secondary may be a bit low, if this is a primary transformer tap, then check the secondary voltage and adjust if it is too far out.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  15. #15
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    Looks bad for machine

  16. #16
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    The inverter is bad. Shortly before I sold my last Fadal I had intermttent #9 spindle fault errors and it indeed was the inverter. Trying to run the machine instead of getting it fixed right away also probably lead to the spindle motor shorting out too. Ultimately had a new Baldor inverter, regen unit and Baldor spindle motor for a list price of around $9k. I had other work going on so Fadal gave me a really good discount on the above. Props to Fadal.

    Fadal stopped using Mitsubishi inverters years ago and generally does not have any rebuilds in stock. If you get it replaced you will also need the regen unit. The Mitsubishi's had an integrated regen unit.

    Mitsubishi can probably rebuild yours but you will have to deal with them yourself and how long it would take is anyone's guess.

    Good luck,

    CM

  17. #17
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    Even if it glows

    I am out of morning black arm band is gone. I am a headporter, use to do work for speed shops all around (cnc ported heads has made a dina- sore out of me).
    Any way a old customer of mine stopped in to get price on tuning a cnc port job on flow bench. It was first time he saw Any of the cnc's ask about it I told him Fadal looked like toast. He said automation is what he did and was an electrical engineer. He works at a nuke facility. He sad he would fix Fadal for port work.

    Happy Days are here again.

  18. #18

    Re: #9 spindle fault

    Hoping Someone is still checking these old posts rather than start a new one and id like to keep the information here. After long searching this seems to be the closest thread to the issue were dealing with on our VMC15. The Baldor Inverter does throw a fault however I can manually control the spindle from the keypad and it functions fine that way however if i try to run a program it wont rotate the spindle at all even for a tool change. The encoder was replaced a couple months ago so that is ruled out. I suspect it must either be the fault line wire to the spindle card or the card itself, or the interface pcb at the inverter. The wiring appears fine on visual inspection however i need to get a longer cable for my DVOM to check its continuity. Has anyone seen this before where the inverter still functions from the touch pad without machine running a program? I'm considering swapping the spindle card and i believe our 4020 has the same card so i could remove it and test but i need to verify part number that before i risk damage to a card from a functional machine. Perhaps it could still be an inverter issue is why i'm asking i don't know exactly how it all works to narrow it down further. I did obtain a manual for the inverter but it will take me a few weeks to read through it all. What was the result of the few others i read here that had error 9? Did you guys end up replacing the inverter?







    Quote Originally Posted by logos View Post
    I purchased a Fadal some time back for home shop. It has been used about a dozen or so times in past few months always ran fine. Today I was running a part and when came to tool change it z up and stopped. No fault showed, but would not change tool. I went to manual and joged to cs. manual input tool change and faulted. I turned off and restarted tool changed manual input. I deleted drill so no programed tool change. No tool in spindle started program tool changed ran profile of part comped off z up stopped again. It turned off spindle but coased to stop faulted again.
    What do you think?
    Logos

  19. #19

    Re: #9 spindle fault

    I checked fault line continuity to J9 connector on the main board and its good. I replaced the spindle "on" ice cube relay to rule it out and when i go into MDI and command M3 i get axis controller card no response. It is no longer giving me error 9 now that it doesnt operate through the control. i can only suspect while the card was intermittent that it was causing the error 9. I dont know where J9 connector goes other than i can only presume its a contact point for the spindle control card. Is it possible to manually swap tools and turn the spindle on through inverter and still run a program or will the cards lack of response toss an error anyways? Is it just looking for an encoder signal? perhaps that part of the board is still functioning so i can at least run single tool operations until i can get it repaired? Thanks.

  20. #20

    Re: #9 spindle fault

    Another Update. After swapping the 1010-4 spindle card from our 4020 to the VMC15 the machine appears to be operating flawlessly. All too often though i've seen coincidences where the issue comes back later. I tried reseating the board and it didnt work. The irony is the VMC 15 board is running in the 4020 now. This has me a little perplexed other than i noticed that the Intel 16 bit chip was excessively hot and pulled it from the board, cleaned the contacts and plugged it back in before trying it on the 4020. I would think any processor would normally get warm though i suppose a bad contact could cause an overheat and malfunction issue. That's it for now we will see how it goes after running it awhile. Fingers crossed that the issue was found. No doubt Fadal machines seem to be filled with ghosts.

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