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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Cincinnati CNC > Acramatic 2100 - batteries
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8

    Acramatic 2100 - batteries

    Hello,

    Read a lot of posts regarding the battery change and I have a question ... Since this is a "normal" PC I can take it out of the machine and replace the batteries on desktop with machine turned of - I just need to keep the battery voltage present (with help of parallel battery)? There are two batteries (WS and RT)

    What to do if there is a Dallas chip solution of the BIOS - what is the procedure here?

    On the back side of computer there is a VGA connector - can I check the computer if I connect a separate monitor there? I have tried this while the machine (Arrow 750) was running and there was no picture, can this be becouse of different resolutions?

    All the help appreciated.

    Best regards, Peter

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    77

    Re: Acramatic 2100 - batteries

    Hi,

    You can hook up a monitor directly to the A2100, but you must first unplug the present monitor as there is only one VGA connector (J21) available on the WS-board.



    The RT-board must be pulled out and equipped with a ISA VGA-card, monitor, keyboard and power ofcourse...

    A modification of the Dallas-chip is explained here;
    https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/repl...ard-battery/3/

    That is on my "to do"-list as well



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8

    Re: Acramatic 2100 - batteries

    Hello,

    Thank you for reply, I have quite the same computer.
    Quote Originally Posted by larspeed View Post
    You can hook up a monitor directly to the A2100, but you must first unplug the present monitor as there is only one VGA connector (J21) available on the WS-board.
    Computer that I have has an additional connector J22 - flat panel video (on a separate ISA card) When I tried to connect second (additional) monitor to J21 there was no picture on it - I assume that this was becouse of dfferent resolutions.



    Batteries that I have are 2 x 2032, question is which one can be changed without any problems and which one to be carefull ...

    WS board is main board - where the power supply is connected?


    RT board?



    Best regards, Peter

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    77

    Re: Acramatic 2100 - batteries

    Hi,

    I see! Was not aware that it exists such different hardware versions of the A2100. I've read that there are quite a few different RT-boards though.

    Yes, the WS is the motherboard to the left in your first picture - with power wires. RT is the far right.

    RT-board must be powered up while changing the CR-cell. Or, if you could manage to wire a separate 3V battery pack at the connection points of the CR-cell holder - that will also do the trick.
    In my case it was too late - the CR-cell had gone dead. So I snipped away the cell and wired a plastic battery pack with 2 AA-cells. Will make it easier to change some time later on
    I then needed to set the bios to;

    - no boot
    - halt on NO alarms

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8

    Re: Acramatic 2100 - batteries

    I managed to replace batteries, but after restart things didn't work as expected ... i got two errors:

    1.) "CMOS time & date not set"
    2.) "Insert bootable media in appropriate drive"

    After that I connected keyboard and set the time in BIOS, but after restart I still get "Insert bootable media in appropriate drive".

    It seems that BIOS is not configured correctly, also I think that hard drive is not detected, becouse of that it wants bootable media.

    Does anyone have any guide how to set bios? Also floppy is not installed on machine, connector is bigger than standard floppy connector - is it possible to connect standard floppy to computer?

    Thank you and best regards, Peter

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    460
    When you say "batteries", which did you replace? WS and RT? If so, this is just the faults created in the WS board, and you will likely have issues with the RT as well.

    The WS config depends on the board part number as there were many different versions, each requiring a different setup.

    You are correct about the insert bootable media indicating it is not seeing the hard drive, but the default and standard config for the hard drive setup are both the same...Auto detect.

    Ensure it is set for auto-detect, make sure boot order is correct, then confirm your hard drive is hooked up properly. If so, it should work unless the hard drive has been replaced with something that can not be auto detected.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8

    Re: Acramatic 2100 - batteries

    Hello,

    Quote Originally Posted by maver1ck View Post
    When you say "batteries", which did you replace? WS and RT? If so, this is just the faults created in the WS board, and you will likely have issues with the RT as well.
    I Replaced both battries, following the "rule" that the RT board must be always powered when changing battery.

    Quote Originally Posted by maver1ck View Post
    The WS config depends on the board part number as there were many different versions, each requiring a different setup.
    I understand this, I also see different pictures of BIOS when I search the forum.
    My boards are:
    WS board: 3-424-2283A01
    RT board: 3-424-2169A03

    Quote Originally Posted by maver1ck View Post
    You are correct about the insert bootable media indicating it is not seeing the hard drive, but the default and standard config for the hard drive setup are both the same...Auto detect.
    Ensure it is set for auto-detect, make sure boot order is correct, then confirm your hard drive is hooked up properly. If so, it should work unless the hard drive has been replaced with something that can not be auto detected.
    I think it is set to Auto Detect (i will have to check), hard drive is Primary master? What is boot order - first HDD, second floppy? Do you maybe have some instructions for this board and its BIOS settings?

    Thank you and best regards, Peter

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    460

    Re: Acramatic 2100 - batteries

    I don't know that I would say there is a "rule" about how to replace the batteries. I have had to reflash boards for people that have tried every trick in the book (with power on, using jumpers, soldering another battery, etc.), and although these all sound plausible, from what I've seen, it seems to fail more often than succeed. Maybe that is just because the people doing this are end users that don't ordinarily work with electronics, but from my experience, it's easier if I just have the boards sent to me to take care of it.

    At this point, it sounds more like you have an issue with your hard drive not being recognized than anything else. If the CMOS date and time on the WS board was lost, it is likely everything was, which should have defaulted the hard drive setting to Auto Detect (which is what it should be for the factory hard drive), but you should verify that this is set properly for your hard drive. Since you most likely had to remove the hard drive when changing the battery, you should also verify connections to the WS Board and Hard Drive (IDE and Power).

    Once you get your BIOS to recognize the hard drive, send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll dig out settings for your WS board. For anyone else thinking about changing their WS battery, ideally, these should just be documented before attempting to change the battery so it can be reconfigured afterwards.

    Hard drive by default should be wired as Primary Master.. Boot order isn't critical, but there really isn't a reason to boot the control from anything other than the hard drive, so all others should be disabled if the BIOS version allows it.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8

    Re: Acramatic 2100 - batteries

    Hello,

    Thank you for your reply and a bit of explanation.
    First of all I must say that the drive was not disconected from WS board, becouse there was no need, and I also think that the basic problem is that the drive is not recognized due to power loss ... but I was not sure what to select, auto or manual (when I selected manual there was a difference between HD data about size and BIOS "calculated" size from Cylinders/Heads/Sectors), but when I selected Auto there was no indication that the drive was detected - I remember from other computers that the Auto selection detected type and size of HDD.

    I know I should have writen down BIOS settings before I have changed the battery, but this is too late now ...

    Will try to check settings again.

    Thank you and best regards, Peter

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8

    Re: Acramatic 2100 - batteries

    With help of maver1ck BIOS was succesfully configured and machine started. Machine starts but we still get errors (same errors were produced before BIOS battery change) ...

    First problem is that the touchscreen is not recognized:

    LCD is Sharp LQ10D421 if anything helps.

    Second problem is "Realtime timeout" (sistem fail 8004d)


    Third problem is alarm 39-6 - Axis drives are not enabled


    As suggested from other posts first and second error could be due to bad/old BIOS battery (low voltage), but after change the errors are still here. Any suggestions?

    Thank you for the help and best regards, Peter

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    460

    Re: Acramatic 2100 - batteries

    I don't believe you mentioned any of those alarms before.
    1) I have never seen the missing Keypad/touchscreen caused by BIOS issues. This is normally one of 2 components in the operators station, but in the case of yours, could also be in the Video card/cable since it carries the interface signals.
    2) When does this occur, when the control is powered up, or only after the machine has been on for a while? I have never seen what you describe caused by BIOS batteries and from my experience, it has always been an intermittent fault. If the battery goes dead, RT will fail diagnostics, and usually other cards can not be detected. The alarm is essentially indicating the WS and RT boards are not able to communicate with each other properly. This could be caused by a failures of the WS Board, RT Board, BBB, I/O, PSP, CHMD, HDD, etc. Not knowing the history of this machine, there were also some WS/RT combinations that weren't really compatible and would have communication failures regularly, but from my experience, this has only come up on machines that customer's swap boards from other machines or buy used components online.
    3) Without a working RT board, the Servos can not run, so this may just be related to the other alarm, but since the servo's can not start up without a functioning RT board, you shouldn't be able to get this alarm if the previous alarm has already occurred on startup.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8

    Re: Acramatic 2100 - batteries

    These alarms/errors were present before the battery change, some forum threads suggested that firts thing to do is change of battery, since sistem time was wrong I started with battery change.

    Second and third error were the first one to occur, before that the machine was working normally on daily basis without problems. Becouse of that the machine was powered off for few weeks and after power up the missing Keypad/touchscreen error popped up - I know strange, there was no manipulation with cables, just stoped responding.

    Any idea how to proceed?

    Best regards, Peter

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    460

    Re: Acramatic 2100 - batteries

    As I mentioned, I don't remember seeing the alarms you described as caused by the BIOS/batteries although I suppose it is possible if it was partially corrupted this could happen. However, if I am remembering correctly, even when the RT board is completely dead, the KTI will still pass the diagnostics, so seems likely that is unrelated and you are looking at a couple separate issues. The fact that you changed the RT Battery also makes the RT board suspect even though it is passing the diagnostics.

    The machine can run without the KTI though, you are just unable to use the keypad and touchscreen so for now you may be best off just using a keyboard and mouse until you get the other issues sorted out.

    The best way to proceed is to isolate each of the possible causes and determine which is at fault. I'm not sure if you have access to another machine that you can swap components with, but this would probably be the easiest way to do it (as long as the components are compatible).

    From my experience, the Realtime timeout alarm is usually an intermittent fault that happens anywhere from once an hour to once a month, but is not a permanent fault as you seem to indicate. In the case of this being an intermittent fault, the power supplies are known to cause this alarm, and is a relatively easy item to replace, so may be a good place for you to start.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    66
    Quote Originally Posted by maver1ck View Post
    I don't know that I would say there is a "rule" about how to replace the batteries. I have had to reflash boards for people that have tried every trick in the book (with power on, using jumpers, soldering another battery, etc.), and although these all sound plausible, from what I've seen, it seems to fail more often than succeed. Maybe that is just because the people doing this are end users that don't ordinarily work with electronics, but from my experience, it's easier if I just have the boards sent to me to take care of it.

    At this point, it sounds more like you have an issue with your hard drive not being recognized than anything else. If the CMOS date and time on the WS board was lost, it is likely everything was, which should have defaulted the hard drive setting to Auto Detect (which is what it should be for the factory hard drive), but you should verify that this is set properly for your hard drive. Since you most likely had to remove the hard drive when changing the battery, you should also verify connections to the WS Board and Hard Drive (IDE and Power).

    Once you get your BIOS to recognize the hard drive, send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll dig out settings for your WS board. For anyone else thinking about changing their WS battery, ideally, these should just be documented before attempting to change the battery so it can be reconfigured afterwards.

    Hard drive by default should be wired as Primary Master.. Boot order isn't critical, but there really isn't a reason to boot the control from anything other than the hard drive, so all others should be disabled if the BIOS version allows it.
    I realize this post is four years old, do you still service these boards?
    Thanks Bob

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    460

    Re: Acramatic 2100 - batteries

    I still do, send me a PM if you are interested

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    17

    Re: Acramatic 2100 - batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by maver1ck View Post
    I still do, send me a PM if you are interested
    I sent you a PM.

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