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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Haas Machines > Any tricks to prevent my haimer 3d sensor from getting jarred from my Haas?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2013

    Any tricks to prevent my haimer 3d sensor from getting jarred from my Haas?

    When I insert my Haimer 3d sensor into my Haas Super Mini mill the spindle the machine pulls it into the spindle so agressively that it jars the sensor out of sink.

    I don't keep the Haimer in the tool carasel, I just install it when I need to use it... but about every 10th time I have to get the Alan wrench out and re sink up the dial on it.

    Any tricks to get a more gentle way of installing it into the spindle?

    One thing that seems to help is holding the tool changer button on the machine to release some air pressure.... but even that doesn't always do the trick.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Re: Any tricks to prevent my haimer 3d sensor from getting jarred from my Haas?

    hy i have seen hass ( and other brands ) spindles clamping a bit more 'determined' ...

    to make it more gentle, at least on paper, it should be required to toogle fast/slow the reaction time of the clamping action, but this would co$t a bit, and one would use it only for gentle equipment, like probes, 3d sensors, fine adjustemnt boring heads, etc; just imagine, if this specs would be standard, you would really have no worries

    a quick solution, would be to use an empty weldon or collet chuck, that you clamp inside your spindle, and after that, you insert the 3d taster inside it, so to protect the sensible inner gears of the taster, from the clamping shock

    to increase repetability, always use same spindle phase, and make sure that also the toolholder is clamped at same orientation

    use a marker :
    ... make a sign on the spindle, so to know where the face is ( so to avoid clamping the taster, while having the spindle rotated 180* )
    ... make a sing on the toolholder face, so to always put the toolholder inside the spindle with the face towards you ( obviously, if, by mistake, you put the toolholder rotated 180* inside a spindle that is rotated 180*, then is like you just installed everything corectly )
    ... if using a collet chuck, drag a line among collet face, nut, and holder, so to have a clue, next time, to put things back just as they where

    if you use the collet chuck, then always use same collet with same orientation inside the toolholder, and also, use same nut; to reduce overhang, use collets designed for h7 range, not those for 1mm range, because the ones for 1mm range will stick out more from the collet chuck ( in case your haimer shank is 16, you could theoretically use a 17 collet with 1mm range, but in reality it will be a mess )

    if you are in doubts about which one to choose between weldon and collet chuck ( perhaps you allready know ) :
    ... weldon will clamp faster ( if there are more screws, then just be sure that you always tighten a single screw, and always the same one ), but with more tirr
    ... collet chuck will clamp slower ( as you need to use a wrench, and make sure that the spindle is not spining ), but with less tirr

    actually, when it comes to tir, the collet chuck has less consistency but his values are towards zero ( collet system tendency is to go toward it's center ), while the weldon chuck has more consistency but his values are not toward 0 ( a side screw will always push to the same side )

    but about every 10th time I have to get the Alan wrench out and re sink up the dial on it
    when it comes to palpator tir adjustment, the haimer solution is not as fast as other brands, that have the adjustment screws right on the palpator

    haimer uses 4 screws towards the upper side, while the alternative, that uses only 2 screws towards the lower side, is way faster

    considering that you have aligned many times, then i suggest to try also the 2 screws solution, so to figure it out for yourself; pls check attached

    if in doubts : analog, not digital:
    ... how the taster is used manually, the analog one is more responsive, because the eye can interpret the movement of the dial tongue, and adjust the hand speed more smoothly; using a digital taster will generate a more rough hand respond
    ... if the taster would be used by the cnc, thus automatically, then it should be digital, so to comunicate with the cnc; however, pls be aware that a digital 3d taster + comunication system is way better then a probe, thus, a probe can do a few things faster then a 3d taster, but a 3d taster can do things that a common cnc probe can't do

    a few more things :
    ... is not always a must to use the dial at zero, thus to keep it spinning half, or more, turns; if the palpator has low tir, then dialing at zero will make the taster deliver absolute values, while, if dialing is not at zero, then one will got relative values; such a trick can speed up setup times, and reduce operator strain
    ... is not always a must to have low palpator tir; is more important to achieve repetability when clamping&unclamping the 3d taster from the spindle; this being said, if is not required by the setup, then you can use the 3d taster with high palpator tir; in the end, you have to master the errors, and compare them to the setup requirements;

    thus, even if there is big palpator tir, once you know the error that is associated with your 3d taster, you will be more confident in using the taster as it is, instead of aligning it; the trick is to trust your 3d taster at a level that is enough for your stock material, or required machining tolerance; again, such tricks will speed up setup time, and reduce operator strain

    for normal usage, i use a calibration ring, and for 3d usage, i use a 100mm ball bearing

    sometimes, is faster to check the error, instead of aligning the palpator; for example, you simply use a calibration ring ( align on it using a probe ), and discover that errors are :
    ... when touching towards x+, dialing at zero : 0.1
    ... when touching towards y- , dialing at a specific value <>0 : 0.22
    and so on

    of course, it may seem weird to use a 3d taster if there is a probe, but, in some cases, is faster to use a 3d taster than writing a custom probe macro

    one more thing : never drag the 3d taster, but only use it locally, touch and retreat; if you drag it, then displayed values may be affected by errors, caused by the palpator micro-oscilations caused by the drag movement; however, the 3d taster is not that accurate to really count the effect of dragging, but still, is a thing to do if you like to protect your equipment

    even if you have big tir caused by the shock of your machine, consider analizing your required tolerances, and maybe, instead of always checking & aligning the palpator, use a different method that still delivers with a satisfactory precision, like an edge finder, or stop-fixture etc; thus try to avoid using the 3d taster, unless there is no faster alternative

    i hope you found this answer usefull, as it covers not only your question, but also a general introduction to tricks, designed to master your 3d taster / kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2013

    Re: Any tricks to prevent my haimer 3d sensor from getting jarred from my Haas?

    Thank You Very...Very much for your very informative response. You gave me many options that should fix my issue.

    Thanks again!


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