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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Tormach Personal CNC Mill > Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?
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  1. #1
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    Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    I just received a "brand new" R8 collet for some mill-turning on my 1100. It actually looks very used to me for several reasons. I'm not quite sure about one of these issues as the only R8 collets I've ever seen or used are the Tormach TTS collets. It appears to have "reliefs" ground either side of the slots along the taper. On my Tormach TTS collets I've see wear patterns in this area so I suspected someone may have just filed off these worn surfaces with perhaps a diamond pad. They don't look to have been ground well. On the other hand I could imagine this might actually be a useful feature. Has anyone ever seen a NEW collet ground this way?

    It's easy to see but difficult to photograph. The light reflections either side of the slot show these relieved areas.

    Attachment 450160

  2. #2
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    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    Its probably an automated process to take the burr (if one exists) off the collet where it has been slotted, looks very evenly done, but as you say difficult to photograph...

    I am not a big fan of any R8 collet system as its a single angle and only grips in one small segment of it. If everything were perfect in theory it would grip over the entire surface, but things are never perfect.

    I would be interested to know how it works out for you. I have a new Lyndex R8 for the Tormach but I havent gotten one of those "Roundtuits" yet to get it installed.
    mike sr

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    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    Quote Originally Posted by popspipes View Post
    Its probably an automated process to take the burr (if one exists) off the collet where it has been slotted, looks very evenly done, but as you say difficult to photograph...

    I am not a big fan of any R8 collet system as its a single angle and only grips in one small segment of it. If everything were perfect in theory it would grip over the entire surface, but things are never perfect.

    I would be interested to know how it works out for you. I have a new Lyndex R8 for the Tormach but I havent gotten one of those "Roundtuits" yet to get it installed.
    It looks fairly consistent but not consistent enough to have been done automatically. The whole collet is just a bag of worms. I wanted to improve on a cheap Chinese version, well that's another story, so ordered an "ultra precision" version from England. I shouldn't have bothered.
    I'm also not a particular fan of R8 either but I need to turn some 20mm stock but I don't own a lathe. Maybe it's just a question of time...
    Step

  4. #4
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    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurboStep View Post
    It looks fairly consistent but not consistent enough to have been done automatically. The whole collet is just a bag of worms. I wanted to improve on a cheap Chinese version, well that's another story, so ordered an "ultra precision" version from England. I shouldn't have bothered.
    I'm also not a particular fan of R8 either but I need to turn some 20mm stock but I don't own a lathe. Maybe it's just a question of time...
    Step
    Ive had a lathe since the early 70's, I wouldnt be without it, some things just are much more easily done on the lathe.
    mike sr

  5. #5
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    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurboStep View Post
    I just received a "brand new" R8 collet for some mill-turning on my 1100. It actually looks very used to me for several reasons. I'm not quite sure about one of these issues as the only R8 collets I've ever seen or used are the Tormach TTS collets. It appears to have "reliefs" ground either side of the slots along the taper. On my Tormach TTS collets I've see wear patterns in this area so I suspected someone may have just filed off these worn surfaces with perhaps a diamond pad. They don't look to have been ground well. On the other hand I could imagine this might actually be a useful feature. Has anyone ever seen a NEW collet ground this way?

    It's easy to see but difficult to photograph. The light reflections either side of the slot show these relieved areas.


    My percieved problem with the R8 is that it only grips in a small area

    mike sr

  6. #6
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    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    The new Tormach replacement R8 Lyndex Collet also has these flats either side of the slot. More important is shorter and smaller on dia than the original, as high lighted in an earlier thread.
    I checked the Crawford collet I bought (UK) to replace the Lyndex (which I have decided not to use) and no flats.

    What was the make collet that you bought from the UK?

  7. #7

    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    judging by the picture it looks like the deburring guy was a little over zealous when he hit the deburring wheel with it . Those flats won't be a problem and it's better than having high spots

  8. #8
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    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    @Mike: You don't need to persuade me that I need to buy a lathe (but don't stop trying). It's a question of space, my workshop is really, really small. I've seen the pinching you mention but I'm assuming that's unintentional. Does your Lindex Collet have the flats like John's Lindex?

    @John: I'm not planning on using it as a TTS collet, I need to hold some 20mm stock for mill-turnng so for this application the length is unimportant. The input that your Lindex collet also has similar flats is what I was looking for. I've never seen this before, and bearing in mind the general state of the collet they made me a little suspicious. There's no manufacturers name on the collet and only the distributors name appears on the packaging. It looks like someone was sent into the workshop for a collet, cleaned it up a little, and sold it as new! You should see the photo's I didn't post!
    It's difficult to find stuff like this in Switzerland and UK shipping is reasonable and fairly quick. I'd be interested to find a new reliable supplier(s) in the UK for small quantities if you have any tips.

    @metalmayhem: It certainly won't cause any issues, it just looks unprofessional and more like a cover-up job. And yes, it also has spots, just not high spots

    Thank you all for responding,
    Step

  9. #9
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    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    TurboStep. I have used Rotagrip mostly for taps and dies. They sell Crawford collets also.(no longer made.) Always had good service and fast delivery.

  10. #10
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    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    My Lyndex R8 doesnt have the flats. The box says Mundelein Illinois, the wrapper says Zavenir Daubert India, so its not made in the USA but sold here as a precision collet.
    One thing that we take for granted in this country is space, I do have a 1 acre lot but a 2 car garage houses most of my tools.

    I was fortunate Step, when I ran my business I had all these tools and when I retired they just sat for a time, I added the Tormach later on just to teach myself the trade.
    mike sr

  11. #11
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    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Roberts View Post
    I have used Rotagrip
    Hi John: I already have some items in my rotragrip cart - thanks for the tip!

    Quote Originally Posted by popspipes View Post
    My Lyndex R8 doesnt have the flats.
    Mike: interesting. I'll probably order Lyndex and find out. The collet I photographed is probably ok to use but I don't have any confidence in it.
    It's not that we don't have any space, it's just that our horses have priority!

    Thanks
    Step

  12. #12

    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    Put it in the machine and see if it works. There's no reason why it wouldn't and the time you've spent being spooked out was simply wasted.

  13. #13
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    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    @Mike. The wrapping paper I think is produced in India rather than the collet. I looked up the company you mentioned.

    @Turbostep. I have a Lyndex collet boxed and unused. Happy to sent it you for your evaluation. If you feel it is OK then you could pay me for it . If you don't like the new design you can return it to me. This would save you from ordering from the US. PM me if you are interested.

  14. #14

    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    Quote Originally Posted by CL_MotoTech View Post
    Put it in the machine and see if it works. There's no reason why it wouldn't and the time you've spent being spooked out was simply wasted.
    That's what I've been thinking . There is plenty of contact surface , it'll eventually be an out of sight out of mind type of thing

  15. #15
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    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Roberts View Post
    @Mike. The wrapping paper I think is produced in India rather than the collet. I looked up the company you mentioned.

    @Turbostep. I have a Lyndex collet boxed and unused. Happy to sent it you for your evaluation. If you feel it is OK then you could pay me for it . If you don't like the new design you can return it to me. This would save you from ordering from the US. PM me if you are interested.
    I was making an assumption based on the wrapper not the box, upon closer examination it does say India on the box as well. Really what difference does it make as was stated earlier, just makes a bit of interesting reading on our seldom used of late forum ha!
    mike sr

  16. #16
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    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    Quote Originally Posted by CL_MotoTech View Post
    Put it in the machine and see if it works. There's no reason why it wouldn't and the time you've spent being spooked out was simply wasted.
    Well as I mentioned that the flats on the taper were not the only disconcerting issues. None of these individual issues are critical but all together this is not what I expect when I buy a NEW "Ultra Precision R8 collet". Yes, I'm aware were talking expectations again The initial impression was that the surface was bone dry (no packaging oil of any kind) and dull as though it had been exposed to the air for some time. I've taken a few more photos for your enjoyment. The first is a better photo of the flats which I now believe to be ok:

    Attachment 450274

    The edge appears to be rather pitted but this is below the ground surface so shouldn't be an issue. A small degree of pitting is evident on all surfaces.

    At the other end there's some kind of rework. I'm not sure at what point in the production this was actually done:

    Attachment 450276

    The slot has been milled out again after the "brass colored filler" was added. Here's a closeup:

    Attachment 450278

    The slot is generally dirty and there are remnants of a red substance. I can't decide whether this is paint (as used on many castings) or some form of anti-seize which would imply the collet has already seen some use. I don't want to remove it in case I return it.

    The threaded end looks fairly used - bear in mind this was sold as new.

    Attachment 450280

    There's also a chip wedged inside a slot - yes I know I can pick it out! Was this from the production or from subsequent use?

    Attachment 450284

    A view up the business end inside the collet looking at the start of the thread from the inside. The threads are pitted (not shown) and while the face is irrelevant it shows some damage and general rust.

    Attachment 450282

    I don't know how high your standards are, but this isn't up to mine.

    Step

  17. #17
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    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Roberts View Post
    @Turbostep. I have a Lyndex collet boxed and unused. Happy to sent it you for your evaluation. If you feel it is OK then you could pay me for it . If you don't like the new design you can return it to me. This would save you from ordering from the US. PM me if you are interested.
    Hi John: Thanks, I appreciate the offer. However, I'm looking for a 20mm collet, not a 3/4 and I confused Lyndex with Vertex. I saw that Rotogrip no longer has any 20mm Crawford collets on stock but they have them in their standard, imported range and also from Vertex. Being confused I assumed the Vertex would be the better option. Have you ever tried their Vertex collets or any other Vertex products?
    Step

  18. #18

    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    That's all fine and dandy, but here you are two days on and all you've done is take pictures and complain.

    You could have at a minimum put it in the machine and checked runout. Also, the brass is just brazing. It's a bit sloppy, sure, but it shouldn't change its operation. It appears the threaded bung was brazed into the collet, not an unusual situation.

    To me, it looks like you got a classic X origin cheap collet. Yes, it's not perfect, but it almost certainly will function just fine.

    As for my standards, I produce work that exceeds my expectations with sub par equipment all of the time. Take that as you will. I respect your desire to have really nice stuff, but sweating the small stuff almost certainly is a case of tripping over dollars to pick up pennies. That is to say, there are more important things to work on.

    Finally, send all these photos to the seller and ask a refund.

  19. #19
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    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    Quote Originally Posted by CL_MotoTech View Post
    ...you are two days on and all you've done is take pictures and complain...
    How do you know what I've done during these 2 days? You must be psychic, but then you would know that I've already sent these photos to the seller.

    At least I've given you something to complain about
    Step

  20. #20

    Re: Anyone ever seen a R8 collet ground this way?

    Okay.

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