[bostosh]

Who or what cam system is doing anything with AI?

Can I show the cam system a cad model and have it output Gcode?

I have waited since the 1970's for this.

[Dan B]

We are doing this, but unfortunately it's not for the public at this time. Maybe once the patent is final I can talk more about this.

[deadlykitten]

hy bostosh if you have ideas, i would really like to hear them

there is not such a " for everybody reliable program " yet, because there are many factors that are not easy to implement, especially for shops with parts and process high variations; in some production enviroments, things planned at 1st hour in the morning, may change a few times in the next 2-3 hours

so existing automatization is there for less variable things :
... some conversational software can generate list of operations, starting from a custom blank shape, to a final part, as long as there is a solid tool registry with time consuming definitions that can match the list of needed operation; output list of operations is not yet considering tolerances, cutting specs are not adjusted with overhang, so is good only for simple rigid parts; the only thing that it does good is colision proof, until is needed to use a too big internal tool inside a small bore
... same idea as above, is taken a bit futher with mbd's for complex models, and uses cam tool library and operation register, and even can create a program for the cmm machine; even more, with generalistic file format, it can be optimized by your tool vendors with their specific tools, then sent back to you; it sounds so perfect, that almost noone uses it; i wonder why ?
... recognition software can scan :
...... a print and generate the solid
...... a real object and generate the solid by using custom feature recognition and faceting tools

all above exists, but not used very much

an intermediate aproach, that relatively gets some ground, is that of using predefined set of operations specific for each shop, in assocation with a predetermined feature format; this works as long as features are somehow identicall, then same strategy is aplied to them ( may be cutting, wire, etc ); this aproach fails when it no longer can identify some features as being associated with a strategy, thus main issue is with automatic feature recognition and association with strategy; in order for this aproach to work, is needed that solid files are in-house created, so to avoid compatibility isues with different file formats from other cam brands, or the way that other softwares defines features ... so this solution aplies to those that do their own product design, and in house machining, so, again, a very limited sector

last but not least, are local custom solutions, as each shop has different needs, but how many shops go that way ? i know one example about custom solid&process declarations for a similar line of product, in such a way that automatized many repetitive tasks; downside is that requires skilled personal to be used, and also to have experience, in order to create the definitions as relieable as possible; another example that i just remembered us about toolpath recreation from g-code, and strategy change + reposting

Identifiyng repetitive tasks is easy, while having the cam developer create a custom solution, is reserved only for big clients, while small ones can not aford the cost, so they are left with whatever parametization their current software allows; how reliable is that ? from this perspective, some use api, but this requires a more skilled programer than the usual cam programmer. I know an example of using api to create custom probing cycles, but this is only for a specific cnc brand, as there are many other ways to deal with probing. mr Dan B has his own take on api; if you are reading this, good luck, and may you finish soon and reach your goals

For small tasks, there is vba and the like, which is frequently used at hobby level,

---

last years, is not the ai cam that evolved, but conectivity; more and more programers realize the benefit of conecting to a cnc, and big plants are gathering machine usage infos ( cutting error waiting ) and plan preventive maintenance

another idea that is pushed, is the digital twin / kindly

[deadlykitten]

and another example i just remembered, is by a cnc machine builder, simulating programs inside his software with accurate motion algorithms, so to fix or improve things, way before the real machine starts cutting; such algorithms are not available in cam softwares, or, if available, then very very limited

conversational software for robots programing ( path programable by jog ), being able to solve automatically for incoherent movements

so far, all are predictive, but there are also reactive applications, like robots that cut metal ( light cuts, not as heavy as a cnc machine ), and for repetitive tasks, they learn to autocorect position, thus to minimize deviation

---

all listed examples are so unique, that having an AI performing as good as top programmers, seems a bit far away, but definetly closer than how it was in 1970 but at least in machining metal, programers can stay relaxed, as nowadays AI is busy with central bank digital currency

mr bostosh, i want to thank you for a good advice that you give a few years ago : you said you craft those guitars at a shop ( you rent time, or something ), even if the machine is not yours, and the context was that is better to create a kind of trust enviroment, like not being needed to start on your own, but simply use what is allready available there and develop. I think it is a gold advice, as it teaches someone to not see an employer as a competitor, but a colaborator, like having a common goal, based on mutual respect / kindly

[bostosh]

DeadlyKitten, and DanB,

Lambda Function | Enabling Autonomous Precision Machining

Check this site.
"Today, machinists essentially use algorithms from experience; Adding AI is the natural evolution"

[Dan B]

It will be interesting to see what this can do, once you get past all the industry buzz words. Is this fully autonomous programming? Is there still human intervention required?

[deadlykitten]

indeed Dan, i also noticed the buzz-words, but no show-off maybe they wish to keep it under the hood

there is this testimonial :
... This will be similar to launching Windows for the CNC machining industry
also this features :
... AI-Assisted Generative Programming
... Real-Time Load Monitoring
... Real-Time Tool Life Monitoring
... Continuous Kaizen Insights
... Adverse Event Avoidance

*okuma has them all

the okuma controllor indeed is something, but more and more ohters are closing that gap

the ones who will get out there the 1st relevant product, to cover efficiently most demands, will win, or at least have the 1st step advantage

by relevant product, i mean those automated tools, that can make one programmer life much more easier

in the end, is better to modify an unfinished solution ( thus spend time only corecting it where is needed ), rather than creating it full from zero / kindly

[hanermo]

Adding AI to CAM is a fool´s dream or --
someone like Elon Musk who can succeed in getting 20B$ in funding and 10 years of support for it to start working.

It´s unbeliavably difficult to do good gcode,
to do good cam,
to do good parametric models for the cam to base on.

[bostosh]

What would this following be defined as?
"AI-Assisted Generative Programming" (sounds vague)

Anything like automatic Feature Recognition?
Where the system attempts to do features that it is programmed to recognize?
Then seek human y / n verification.

[mactec54]

Adding AI to CAM is a fool´s dream or --
someone like Elon Musk who can succeed in getting 20B$ in funding and 10 years of support for it to start working.

It´s unbeliavably difficult to do good gcode,
to do good cam,
to do good parametric models for the cam to base on.

You would not be using Parametric modeling, this is way behind, direct modeling is superior and has been used for more than 10 years checkout keycreator by Kubotek

[bostosh]

direct modeling is superior and has been used for more than 10 years checkout keycreator by Kubotek

This is the real thing, since Cadkey19.........

Back to AI......
What can AI do within the cut to mod/improve the cutter usage?

[deadlykitten]

What would this following be defined as?
"AI-Assisted Generative Programming" (sounds vague)

hy bostosh that was right from lambda page, please check attached

it sounds vague, because it is abstractization at higher level; it's so generalized, that it may seem that will fail, but will not, if configured properly only for a specific process

What can AI do within the cut to mod/improve the cutter usage?

there are functions old, from decades, targeting CAD or CNC, rarely capable of doing both, as this requires having acces to motion algorithms

let's narrow it to an example : okuma has adaptive function, but most common nowadays cnc don't have it ... so one could install hardware and record loads from machine, then change the program, mapping feeds where is needed; he may call such a tool as AI, or as IOT functions, does not matter

nowadays, the term of AI on cam software, is more of a marketing thing, rather than actually boosting functionality at some unexpected / oau level

parametric, Recognition, direct modeling

for most shops, classical cad cam is king

feature recogntion is used more in reverse engineerring, by some research labs, or kids in garages with some diy/cheap scanners, etc

direct modeling is used more for parts for 3d printers, for stuff that the classical machining would fail, or be too expensive

such new tools, are not there to drastically improve machining, but are more and more towards additive

no one will fire his actual cam programmer, and get instead a 'direct modeling' guy ?!

Adding AI to CAM is a fool´s dream or --
someone like Elon Musk who can succeed in getting 20B$ in funding and 10 years of support for it to start working.

It´s unbeliavably difficult to do good gcode,
to do good cam,
to do good parametric models for the cam to base on

if you look at all things, is hard or impossible to find the common ground, thus a too generalistic aproach, seems out of comprehension, not possible to define now

but look at the closer things, look at what is curently offered : those are not general functions, but more of customized approaches for imeadtly use

if i may repeat myseld, AI today, in machining, is marketing, not something that will do your job / kindly