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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Fadal > Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets
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  1. #1
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    Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    Does anyone have sources for the datasheets for the spindle drives? I had a power spike and it blew a resistor on the Baldor inverter power supply. I can't find the resistance of lone blown resistor and hope to avoid spending $500 sending it in when I can order a $2 resistor from mouser. Specifically the EB0015A00SP model made by Avea Brown Boveri, or the Baldor model CB10008c-00 which is identical. It goes in to a small bridge rectifying so I'm not sure how essential it is but it would be nice if I could repair it myself and put the smoke back in all the wires.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by warrenb View Post
    Does anyone have sources for the datasheets for the spindle drives? I had a power spike and it blew a resistor on the Baldor inverter power supply. I can't find the resistance of lone blown resistor and hope to avoid spending $500 sending it in when I can order a $2 resistor from mouser. Specifically the EB0015A00SP model made by Avea Brown Boveri, or the Baldor model CB10008c-00 which is identical. It goes in to a small bridge rectifying so I'm not sure how essential it is but it would be nice if I could repair it myself and put the smoke back in all the wires.
    Please send a photo of the damaged part

  3. #3
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    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    Quote Originally Posted by Mhook View Post
    Please send a photo of the damaged part
    Thanks for taking a look. It is a resistor between the AC power (not sure the voltage but probably 230) in to one leg of the bridge rectifier. There is nothing else between. I couldn't find any information about protective resistors for this particular rectifier and I'm not an electrical engineer with a oscilloscope to figure it out.


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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by warrenb View Post
    Thanks for taking a look. It is a resistor between the AC power (not sure the voltage but probably 230) in to one leg of the bridge rectifier. There is nothing else between. I couldn't find any information about protective resistors for this particular rectifier and I'm not an electrical engineer with a oscilloscope to figure it out.


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    you can test with this resistor

    RS-2B/1.2 ohm
    And then check the output voltage
    please check this website
    https://www.electronicsurplus.com/vishay-dale-electronics-rs-2b-1-2r-resistor-power-1-2-ohm-3w

  5. #5
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    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    Quote Originally Posted by Mhook View Post
    you can test with this resistor

    RS-2B/1.2 ohm
    And then check the output voltage
    please check this website
    https://www.electronicsurplus.com/vi...wer-1-2-ohm-3w
    Thanks for that. It does have the same ceramic covering (what's left of it) as the other resistor going in to the mosfets. Same one you directed me to. I will solder a replacement in and report back.

  6. #6
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    Aug 2009
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    1573

    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    Quote Originally Posted by warrenb View Post
    I had a power spike and it blew a resistor on the Baldor inverter power supply.
    ...there should be one or two Surge Suppressor on incoming power feeds somewhere if, I remember correctly. Did it blow too?

    250v looks like this photo from ebay search
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/15480122848...IAAOSwUlph5vtU

    480v like this
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/19324225866...cAAOSwQ0td6Ltd

  7. #7
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    683

    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    Thanks. There is that assembly in my cabinet. Apparently it is something else. I replaced the blown resistor, and another on on the 'big board' that blew. I checked everything as best I could, soldered in the new resistors, and boom. The smoke escaped from the same two resistors. It was right on getting power. I checked the power. 236vac, within the range for the 230vac required confirmed by measuring the power in to my other FADAL. It was quite a spectacular light show once I put the power back to the inverter. I can still jog the machine so it is located between those resistors and the power. But with the power good it seems there just may be gremlins in the inverter. Maybe capacitors? There's no other obvious damage I can see. I'll replace them since they are cheap. Especially compared to a professional repair at $1500 or a new driver at $2500. At this point there's not much to lose. I will let you know how it goes and welcome any suggestions. Again, I sincerely appreciate your help.

  8. #8
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    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    ...more things to test with your VOM.... suspect it has failed shorted out vs open.
    https://www.google.com/search?client...idge+rectifier

  9. #9
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    Nov 2013
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    4674

    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    Hi,
    Its called the 'inrush protection resistor'.

    A VFD rectifies the incoming AC voltage and dumps that charge onto the smoothing capacitors, also called DCLink capacitors. If the device has been sitting in un-powered condition
    the DCLink capacitors will be discharged. If you then energised the input circuit there would be HUGE inrush current as the supply tried to charge the DCLink capacitors
    nearly instantly, and that would pop....hell...not pop...but BLOW the fuse out of the wall.

    To prevent that there is a low value resistance, typically 20Ohm, inserted into the input circuit. Once the DCLink capacitors are charged up, say 20 to 30 milliseconds later, then a relay
    closes such that the inrush resistor is shorted or bypassed. If the relay does not operate or the contacts are burnt then when the load is applied the device the input current, several, maybe
    tens of amps will have to pass through the inrush resistor....it will get hot and smoke up.

    The usual cause of the inrush resistor failing is that there is a short on the DC link, say a shorted DCLink capacitor, or a pair of IGBT's which have 'shot through' creating
    a low resistance (short) between the DCLink positive and DCLink negative, OR a failed inrush resistor bypass relay.

    Its common to use a flyback inverter in the device to generate the 24V or what have you for all the electronics, which includes the inrush bypass relay. The sequence of events is that the AC power
    is applied to the device and the DCLink capacitors start to charge up to 320VDC (from 230VAC rectified). The flyback invert gets its high voltage supply from the DClink. It will start to work at about
    200VDC after about 10-20 milliseconds, and start producing its 24VDC output, which in turn energises the inrush bypass relay. Thus if the flyback inverter is faulty of fails to run for whatever reason
    the bypass relay will never energise....ergo the inrush bypass resistor blows up.

    Fit the biggest Wattage, say 10-20-50W, resistor in there that you can fit, any where between 10 Ohms to 50 Ohms will be fine. I very VERY much prefer vitreous coatings, they resist the thermal shock of the
    short duration high current pulses they are subjected to in service. Ordinary ceramic coated resistors work but fail prematurely.

    Even then you will have to check for the afforementioned fault conditions or the new resistor will smoke up just like the old one.


    Good luck. Remember when testing that the voltages are directly rectified 230VAC and produce 320VDC....it bloody well hurts and hurts bad if you get it wrong. Second mistake is to treat
    the DCLink negative as an earth...<<<<IT IS NOT SAFE>>>>, it will in fact get to -320VDC relative to earth...if you make the mistake of sticking the earth wire of your oscilloscope onto the DCLink
    negative be prepared for sparks. If you are going to use an oscilloscope it MUST be isolated from earth OR you must use an optically isolated probe, which is my preferred method.

    Craig

  10. #10
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    Mar 2008
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    683

    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    Thanks Craig,

    Sorry for the late reply. After fixing the last 'little' blown resistor on the 24vdc board pictured, the main board direct from the 3 phase wall power blew with a spectacular result. Capacitors, the 'smoothing resistors" and a whole bunch else down the line. I read up on testing 3 phase bridge rectifiers and bought a cap tester. All appeared to be working but since they were fairly inexpensive I ordered all new caps and a new rectifier. Tracing that "inrush" circuit I have also decided to replace the relay too, but not sure when the heck that will show up. I have done a whole lot of studying this type of circuit and i sincerely thank you for the help you have provided. I should have all the new components to solder in to the boards and attempt a repair. With all the time I'm spending I could have bought a new one, sure, but what fun would that be??? And it is always a good thing to know what happened in the first place so I can fix it later and help all my buddies who have the same vintage FADALs. They still remain quite popular with we mold makers.
    I will keep everyone updated what I figure out. Since it is not one of my main machines and can afford to let it be down.

    The one thing I don't get is why would it suddenly fail? Could be power surge but there are two fuses and a circuit breaker. Gremlins maybe? Or just one of those things. Regardless

    Thanks again. I really appreciate your experience and knowledge.

  11. #11
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    4674

    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    Hi,
    I read up on testing 3 phase bridge rectifiers and bought a cap tester. All appeared to be working but since they were fairly inexpensive I ordered all new caps and a new rectifier. Tracing that "inrush" circuit I have also decided to replace the relay too, but not sure when the heck that will show up
    You may be going down a rabbit hole. Yes components like the bridge rectifier, DCLink capacitors, InRush resistors and relays can and do blow up, but there is usually a single cause,
    and its usually fatal. If one or more of the IGBTs or MOSFETS have failed then it highly probable it will short the DCLink and that in turn will blow the rectiers/resistors etc.

    You need to test the integrity of the IGBTs/MOSFETs. You need a variable voltage DC power supply moderate current ability, say 3A. Hook this to the DCLink with a big 300w
    resistor, say 50Ohm, and slowly increase the voltage, up to at least 100VDC. If the IGBT's/MOSFETs cant resist 100VDC, then what hope do they have at 320VDC, the operating
    DCLink voltage? The big series resistor is for current limiting in the event the IGBTs/MOSFETs are faulty, it should save your power supply and stop it blowing up in your face.

    If the IGBTs/MOSFETs are faulty, that is cannot withstand 300-400VDC, then give up. Replacing them is possible but the reliability in service is likely to be poor. I have done so
    for high powered and very expensive welders, but really its a gamble at best. The last one I did was a $20,000 Fronius, and the owner was adamant that it be fixed, despite the power board
    no longer being available as a spare part and was $8000 when it was!

    Craig

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    15362

    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    Quote Originally Posted by warrenb View Post
    Thanks Craig,

    Sorry for the late reply. After fixing the last 'little' blown resistor on the 24vdc board pictured, the main board direct from the 3 phase wall power blew with a spectacular result. Capacitors, the 'smoothing resistors" and a whole bunch else down the line. I read up on testing 3 phase bridge rectifiers and bought a cap tester. All appeared to be working but since they were fairly inexpensive I ordered all new caps and a new rectifier. Tracing that "inrush" circuit I have also decided to replace the relay too, but not sure when the heck that will show up. I have done a whole lot of studying this type of circuit and i sincerely thank you for the help you have provided. I should have all the new components to solder in to the boards and attempt a repair. With all the time I'm spending I could have bought a new one, sure, but what fun would that be??? And it is always a good thing to know what happened in the first place so I can fix it later and help all my buddies who have the same vintage FADALs. They still remain quite popular with we mold makers.
    I will keep everyone updated what I figure out. Since it is not one of my main machines and can afford to let it be down.

    The one thing I don't get is why would it suddenly fail? Could be power surge but there are two fuses and a circuit breaker. Gremlins maybe? Or just one of those things. Regardless

    Thanks again. I really appreciate your experience and knowledge.
    The caps are what normally starts the problem, and most recommend for them to be changed every 4 years max
    Mactec54

  13. #13
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    Mar 2008
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    683

    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    Thanks again.

    It is like putting $500 tires on a $100 car to make it work better. At this point it is the challenge. AND the fact that the new spindle driver is 2500 bucks, As of now I am out about $100 for some new caps and 3phase rectifier. Rather then test the mosfets and other components as you recommend I will buy new ones. I don't have that kind of test equipment. Best case is it works and I learned valuable skills repairing inverter boards with $400 in parts. Worst case, I learned valuable skills attempting to repair an inverter board and buy a new one for $2500. In reality, there isn't much left to replace on this simple board. One mosfet, one more relay, and some black plasric box thing with some soldered joints. (I will post a pic when I get back to the shop.) So by process of elimination there won't be much left....
    I was reading another of my favorite forums where a poster said, "why buy a new one when I can spend 10 times the amount making it myself. " I am not there yet but it sure is worth the challenge to avoid a 2500 buck replacement.

    Kind regards.

  14. #14
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    683

    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    I just got new capacitors today, finally, I will keep everyone updated on successes and failures. Thanks for your input.

  15. #15
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    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    Quote Originally Posted by warrenb View Post
    I just got new capacitors today, finally, I will keep everyone updated on successes and failures. Thanks for your input.
    Make sure all components you replace are in the correct orientation
    Mactec54

  16. #16
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    Mar 2008
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    683

    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Hi,


    You may be going down a rabbit hole. Yes components like the bridge rectifier, DCLink capacitors, InRush resistors and relays can and do blow up, but there is usually a single cause,
    and its usually fatal. If one or more of the IGBTs or MOSFETS have failed then it highly probable it will short the DCLink and that in turn will blow the rectiers/resistors etc.

    You need to test the integrity of the IGBTs/MOSFETs. You need a variable voltage DC power supply moderate current ability, say 3A. Hook this to the DCLink with a big 300w
    resistor, say 50Ohm, and slowly increase the voltage, up to at least 100VDC. If the IGBT's/MOSFETs cant resist 100VDC, then what hope do they have at 320VDC, the operating
    DCLink voltage? The big series resistor is for current limiting in the event the IGBTs/MOSFETs are faulty, it should save your power supply and stop it blowing up in your face.

    If the IGBTs/MOSFETs are faulty, that is cannot withstand 300-400VDC, then give up. Replacing them is possible but the reliability in service is likely to be poor. I have done so
    for high powered and very expensive welders, but really its a gamble at best. The last one I did was a $20,000 Fronius, and the owner was adamant that it be fixed, despite the power board
    no longer being available as a spare part and was $8000 when it was!

    Craig
    After many weeks of being very busy (a good thing) I finally had a rainy weekend to start tracing the circuit for the spindle board you have so generously helped me trouble shoot. This afternoon I unsoldered the IGBT for testing (no easy task with 12 pins all soldered in place.) From all the youtube videos on testing them, and using your guidance, there is indeed, a short in the "W" leg of the IGBT. Since I have already gone so far I will replace the MOSFET as well. I'm not sure where I will find a replacement IGBT but I know Parlec in Washington has a bunch on the shelf for a pretty good price.

    In the next week or two I will have it all put back together and give everyone an update.

    Thanks

  17. #17
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    683

    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    FYI!!! I found the same Fuji 6 pack IGBT on ebay for $30 .

  18. #18
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    Nov 2013
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    4674

    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    Hi,
    well done, it is often the case that IGBT/MOSFET modules, despite being only five years old are obsolete. The design of IGBTs/MOSFETs is progressing that fast
    and improving with each generation that what was state-of-the-art five years ago is gone now.

    When a IGBT fails it will often give the gate drive circuit absolute A-holes, and it will pay to check on it BEFORE applying full voltage. Fit the new module but power up the DCLink with
    50VDC or so and most importantly have some series resistance so that if a shoot through fault still exists it does not blow up in your face. It sound s easy, right, power up with 50VDC,
    but its often a little more complicated because the power supply for the electronics of the device, almost invariably a fly-back inverter, will not even start to operate until it sees 165VDC, or more.
    Thus you need to be able to supply the flyback inverter with enough VDC to have it run and power up the control electronics but NOT try to charge up the DCLink capacitors. Sometimes, and very conveiently
    there is a 10Ohm (approx) current limit resistor from the DCLink to the flyback inverter, and provides a good place to open the circuit between the DCLink and the inverter so that you may quitely feed the
    flyback inverter with 200VDC or so WITHOUT charging up the DCLink capacitors.

    Craig

  19. #19
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    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    I bit the bullet and bought a new inverter. I replaced just about everything on the board and it worked for a little while. The same resistors fried again and I just gotta get that machine ready. I won't give up on the board but will be able to take my time with the new spindle. Thank you to everyone for helping me.

  20. #20
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    Re: Baldor Spindle Inverter Board Datasheets

    Quote Originally Posted by warrenb View Post
    I bit the bullet and bought a new inverter. I replaced just about everything on the board and it worked for a little while. The same resistors fried again and I just gotta get that machine ready. I won't give up on the board but will be able to take my time with the new spindle. Thank you to everyone for helping me.
    Hi Warren,

    Just curious if you ever got the Baldor working again?

    Best regards,

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