530,080 active members*
2,549 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
Page 1 of 2 12
Results 1 to 20 of 32
  1. #1
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    228

    Chinese 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    Hello All CNC Fans.

    Looking for advice and feedback.

    Many of us are familiar with the famous HSD 9Kw ATC spindles used on many machines.
    While they are of top popularity due to their dependability... They are expensive.

    Does anyone have a machine.. or purchased one of the Chinease knock offs that are sold from china?

    They are typically $3000 to $4000.

    If you use one.. can you give your feedback?

    How long have you used yours?

    How does it compare to the true HSD?

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    11562

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankmali17 View Post
    Hello All CNC Fans.

    Looking for advice and feedback.

    Many of us are familiar with the famous HSD 9Kw ATC spindles used on many machines.
    While they are of top popularity due to their dependability... They are expensive.

    Does anyone have a machine.. or purchased one of the Chinease knock offs that are sold from china?

    They are typically $3000 to $4000.

    If you use one.. can you give your feedback?

    How long have you used yours?

    How does it compare to the true HSD?
    When you say 9Kw is this a replacement for a HSD if not how do you plan to run it do you have 3Ph power

    When you say Knock offs I'm not sure what you mean as all the Chinese ATC Spindles are not copies of anyone's especially HSD, they build there own Spindles there own Design

    Most of the manufactures in China there Spindles are every good, do they compare to HSD, they seem to have just as good reliability as the HSD spindles, a friend brought 2 ATC ISO30 5 years ago and have run the hell out of them without any problems his where not 9Kw though
    Mactec54

  3. #3
    ger21
    Guest

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    I think he's referring to these, whick look exactly like an HSD spindle.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ATC-...f090dfaddbe1-2

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    11562

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    I think he's referring to these, whick look exactly like an HSD spindle.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ATC-...f090dfaddbe1-2
    These do look similar but that is about as far as it goes HSD are quite different for that size spindle HSD do have long nose spindle as well but normally the lower KW spindles
    Mactec54

  5. #5
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35139

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    That's what he's asking. What's the difference between these and a real HSD?
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    11562

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    That's what he's asking. What's the difference between these and a real HSD?
    HSD in that size I have not seen any with a ISO30 spindle they use HSK tooling so are very different in that respect the internals are very different when you go to HSK tooling
    Mactec54

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1740

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    It says ISO30 on the nameplate and it also says 12,000 Rpm at 400 Hz? So what do you believe and what do they actually ship out? I do not think 12,000 Rpm is fast enough for the bits I run.

    But hey, someday when I sell all my other shop toys off downsize to just two hobbies, I will get a ATC, and move it all to Florida. Mac do they make smaller ones that are any good??
    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    11562

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    It says ISO30 on the nameplate and it also says 12,000 Rpm at 400 Hz? So what do you believe and what do they actually ship out? I do not think 12,000 Rpm is fast enough for the bits I run.

    But hey, someday when I sell all my other shop toys off downsize to just two hobbies, I will get a ATC, and move it all to Florida. Mac do they make smaller ones that are any good??
    That's what I said in the last post that the Chinese spindles have ISO30 or anything you want and the HSD spindles use HSK tooling in that size Spindle so very different in design

    Sure there are may good small ATC spindles starting at ISO20 800w would not go below ISO20 for general use
    Mactec54

  9. #9
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35139

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    HSD in that size I have not seen any with a ISO30 spindle
    I used to use a machine that had two HSDs of that size with ISO 30 toolholders. It was made in 1997, though.
    Yes, HSK is a much better option.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  10. #10
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    228

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    HSK vs ISO is debatable... Most 9KW HSD spindles I see (long or shortnose) use ISO30.. for woodworking routers.

    12000RM.. is an option..
    You can get them in 18000 and 24000RPM...

    That all said... the point is..
    *** Can Anyone share a review.. of how the Chinease ones perform ***
    are they loud? do they vibrate more? do they fail quickly?

    Thanks guys

  11. #11
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    65

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    HSK versus ISO ......

    It is not one versus the other, they are different things??

    HSK is obviously specifically for high speed applications, high-speed-machining toolpaths.

    ISO spindles have problems for high speed applications (spindle taper expansion at high centrifugal loading, tool holder locking up in the spindle). That is why HSK has been developed. ISO is from the olden times of low speed, bigger tools, bigger torque loads...

    ISO machines using big tools going slow will needs be very much more rigid than HSK high speed machines using smaller tools. HSK can benefit by smaller machine loads and smaller work holding loads, while still seeing high material removal rates.

    HSK ATC engineering is more complex and exacting than ISO ATC mechanisms, and HSK seems not to be readily available from Chinese spindle manufacturers when I was looking last year. The Chinese ATC spindles are huge (twice as long) as European ATC spndles.
    Jonathon Clarke
    www.solpont.com

  12. #12
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35139

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    HSK is not just for high speeds. It's also much stronger than ISO30.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  13. #13
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    228

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    SO does anyone have a machine with a Chinease ATC spindle?.. weather it's an HSD knockoff or not.. doesn't matter.

    How about anyone with a watercoolled ATC spindle?

    What has your experience been with noise, accuracy, reliability, and life of spindle?

  14. #14
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35139

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  15. #15
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    438

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    I`m getting one of these for cheap cheap, like $3000 CDN express shipped cheap to be a backup for an actual HSD spindle that I am still trying to figure out the next steps with.

    That I ordered with express shipping just before an 8 day chinese holiday week.....not so great.

    Getting an old project cnc running as I have all this spare time right now.

  16. #16
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    438

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    Attachment 450380

    So, not quite a drop in replacement, but there was some documentation that came when I asked and it is simple enough. I will attach that here too if anyone finds it useful.

    Figuring out the wiring of the existing HSD was harder, but eventually I gathered what was what with some double checking from the HSD manuals (via techno cnc site)

    What I don't have is and S3 sensor nor, I think, a breaking resistor. I might be able to use the old resistor (I think that is what it is) from the HSD....but the HSD was 2 pole and the knock off is 4 pole so not sure.

    I think I will be ready to hook up tomorrow and see if I can get at least a manual tool change to work which was the problem with the HSD, tool holder is stuck in the machine (ie draw bar is stuck).

    Might need to figure out how to bypass the S3 sensor in the controller (syntec) and add appropriate delays, etc. I'm expecting that even though the current set up only seems to recognize the s3 every 1/3 time and happily changes while spinning down the other times.

    Then see if the VFD needs replacing due to the 4 pole motor or not. I'm assuming the motor will work but at 1/2 speed with the current setup.

    I'll post a video of it spinning when I get that far.

  17. #17
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    438

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    Well I can't post a video, but it is sort of working.

    Fan works
    Spindle spins
    Manual tool change works
    Auto tool change doesn't work.....alignment is every so slightly off but I haven't tightened everything up yet either but that's not the problem.....it moves into position and then freezes instead of letting the tool go.
    (I also cant manually change the tool afterwards unless I reboot)

    Seems to brake ok....maybe that braking is on the VFD side of things as I think it should be....not sure what I was seeing in the HSD then but it's not there on the chinese.

    And off course, no ground wires for the spindle or the fan. The HSD had them of course.....but they attached to nothing as the router is chinese! No wire on the machine side!

    It sounds weird, but I have only run it at relatively slow speeds too (5K and 24K but likely 1/2 those speeds as it changed from a 2 pole HSD to the 4 pole Chinese).

    It did spin VERY smoothly on the table so I think the weird sound is more electronic that the actual spindle mechanics.

    All in all, no magic smoke today so that is a good day!

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    11562

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    Quote Originally Posted by gfacer View Post
    Attachment 450380

    So, not quite a drop in replacement, but there was some documentation that came when I asked and it is simple enough. I will attach that here too if anyone finds it useful.

    Figuring out the wiring of the existing HSD was harder, but eventually I gathered what was what with some double checking from the HSD manuals (via techno cnc site)

    What I don't have is and S3 sensor nor, I think, a breaking resistor. I might be able to use the old resistor (I think that is what it is) from the HSD....but the HSD was 2 pole and the knock off is 4 pole so not sure.

    I think I will be ready to hook up tomorrow and see if I can get at least a manual tool change to work which was the problem with the HSD, tool holder is stuck in the machine (ie draw bar is stuck).

    Might need to figure out how to bypass the S3 sensor in the controller (syntec) and add appropriate delays, etc. I'm expecting that even though the current set up only seems to recognize the s3 every 1/3 time and happily changes while spinning down the other times.

    Then see if the VFD needs replacing due to the 4 pole motor or not. I'm assuming the motor will work but at 1/2 speed with the current setup.

    I'll post a video of it spinning when I get that far.
    There would not be a Braking Resistor mounted in the spindle terminal box A Braking Resistor is connected at the VFD Drive

    An yes you will have to change the VFD Drive Parameters to suit the Name Plate spec's of the new spindle as it will also have a different frequency rating also depending on the max RPM of the spindle
    Mactec54

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    11562

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    Quote Originally Posted by gfacer View Post
    Well I can't post a video, but it is sort of working.

    Fan works
    Spindle spins
    Manual tool change works
    Auto tool change doesn't work.....alignment is every so slightly off but I haven't tightened everything up yet either but that's not the problem.....it moves into position and then freezes instead of letting the tool go.
    (I also cant manually change the tool afterwards unless I reboot)

    Seems to brake ok....maybe that braking is on the VFD side of things as I think it should be....not sure what I was seeing in the HSD then but it's not there on the chinese.

    And off course, no ground wires for the spindle or the fan. The HSD had them of course.....but they attached to nothing as the router is chinese! No wire on the machine side!

    It sounds weird, but I have only run it at relatively slow speeds too (5K and 24K but likely 1/2 those speeds as it changed from a 2 pole HSD to the 4 pole Chinese).

    It did spin VERY smoothly on the table so I think the weird sound is more electronic that the actual spindle mechanics.

    All in all, no magic smoke today so that is a good day!
    You have to have the spindle Grounded, Ground wires need to be connected
    Mactec54

  20. #20
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    438

    Re: Chinease 9Kw HSD ATC Spindle Knockoffs !

    I will work on that, but I assume that the Chinese assume the spindle is bolted to the frame and the frame (I hope!) is grounded somewhere. If I test that theory with a continuity check, would that be enough or another way to ask is what is the precise benefits of the ground wire running all the way to the spindle.....be curious to know as I will have to run it up the chain myself.

    Attached are the specs from the sticker on the spindle and the VFD that is in the cabinet now.....no instructions that I have or can find on that so I do have a new VFD to install if needed.

Page 1 of 2 12

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-19-2018, 05:12 PM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-20-2017, 09:30 PM
  3. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-19-2013, 05:16 AM
  4. Chinease ball screws an linear rails
    By MaxTheModder in forum Want To Buy...Need help!
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-08-2011, 10:44 AM
  5. What do you know about patents and "knockoffs"?
    By Smertrios in forum Community Club House
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-20-2008, 05:11 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •