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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Cincinnati CNC > Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!
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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!

    Model FRO
    Machine S/N 7049-A0B-98-0595
    Control Diagrams 91203577

    I used to run this machine and recently purchased and moved it to my garage. Prior to move I powered it up and lowered head to prep for move. Seemed normal. It came from a facility w 440v. I got the original transformer and changed the jumpers. I am running a rotary phase converter. Voltage at M20 from phase converter are 235 274 255. Voltage at power supply by hard drive is 158v ... sticker says it is "auto range selecting L90-135v H180-270v".

    With the exception of a fan on top of cabinet the machine is largely unresponsive when switched on. I directly plugged in a computer cord from wall outlet and the screen/pc booted up completely - passing all diagnostics (except touch screen-kti, keyboard and mouse work fine). Still nothing else responds. E-stops are out. Air hooked up. What should I do next? I am no electrician but have a meter and have checked continuity on the bank of small fuses. Are there any other fuses to check? Are my phase converter voltages to far out of whack? is there a pot that needs tweaked because of the environment change?

    Mallard helped me resurrect this machine a few years ago w cmos settings etc. Hopefully you all can guide me once again. Mallard, Maverick, Cven, Kilroy... Are you with me?

    Once up I want to get HDD copied on to a solid state drive to run from and I know the tricky battery must be replaced ASAP. And while I'm dreaming I want to get the probe and tool setter options going and ad a fourth axis to play with. It is pre wired for 4th so do I just ad a PSR4?
    Arrow 1000 w A2100 GibbsCam
    Miller Dynasty SD

  2. #2
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!

    Find the large transformer in the control cabinet and look at the primary connections, it should have a chart showing jumpers for different voltages. Compare (but don't change) the chart to the wiring, I'll bet it's a 400 volt machine.

  3. #3
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!

    Well...it does have a big transformer looking unit on top of electrics cabinet but my understanding is that this unit can be configured to most any electric service through its original multi-tap transformer.


    (going to throw out the word ACRAMATIC here as a searchable related tag)


    thanks
    Arrow 1000 w A2100 GibbsCam
    Miller Dynasty SD

  4. #4
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!

    Bob is probably thinking of the older machines that had the transformer in the cabinet rather than the external one your machine came with.

    These machines were configured to run at 230V could have various input voltages because of the multi-tap transformer. The CNC controls were set to run off 230V, so 158V is not enough to power it up in the 230V range (and if you switched it to 115V, 158V is too high). So I wouldn't expect the control to power up until you get the voltage to the CNC correct. I also question how you arrived at 158V, that sounds like you were only testing one leg to ground.

    You may fix the control voltage simply by setting the taps on the transformer properly, try to get 230VAC out of the transformer. With your phase converter it sounds like you will have trouble getting the lines balanced, but you definitely need to bring them down some.

    Once your voltage is in the correct range, the control should at least power up for you. Once the control is powered up there should be an indication in the lower left part of the screen telling you if it is waiting for power, etc.

  5. #5
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by veggiedawg View Post
    Once up I want to get HDD copied on to a solid state drive to run from and I know the tricky battery must be replaced ASAP. And while I'm dreaming I want to get the probe and tool setter options going and ad a fourth axis to play with. It is pre wired for 4th so do I just ad a PSR4?
    On this future wish list, seems consensus from those who tried the HDD thing didnt work out well for any of them, that you don't want to go there - but I have no clue, just repeating what I seem to recall.

    The machines were prewired for Troyke 4rth axis, so beside the table/motor/cable, yes, all you need in the cabinet is a BDS4 drive (PSR is the power supply already there). Some of us can help you with parts when this wish list time comes....

    Assuming you fix the control voltage FIRST and get to point where you can push the green button to applyl 3ph to the drives, that 375v generated leg will cause the servo PSR supply to turn on the Db circuit and cook the resistor and itself. Failure & damage will likely be fairly quick.

    I recommend FIRST thing to do is get your 3ph voltages into machine down to acceptable levels. Our old PSR4 drive PS spec IIRC off top of my head is 250Vac input max; and I would NEVER allow that on MY machine - it will where out all the drive components prematurely. Get the highest leg down to 230 or 240 max. Lower on the others is much better than to hi on 1... Since the control voltages ultimately come out of that input transformer, I would get the 3ph right before spending time on the control voltage.

  6. #6
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!

    I meant the single phase control transformer inside the control cabinet. In ours the primary is 400v and the secondary is 230v. Our machine is connected to 240v 3phase main, then the dog house size external transformer steps it up to 400v 3 phase.

  7. #7
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!

    Looks like I may need to clarify a little bit. The machine Bob has is a later version than I was thinking (with the Siemens 611 drives), but that is also a transformer that is likely not in the OP's machine.
    The 98 vintage of the OP should have had Kollmorgen drives, which were wired at 230 as I mentioned. The Siemens drives ran off higher voltages. I don't have the info in front of me, but the 400V Bob mentioned with 600V to the BUS sounds right.

  8. #8
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!

    Well I have experimented with the rotary phase converter and multi - tap transformer and without exceeding 240 the best I can get is 195 199 235. Is that enough? At those settings I am currently reading 35 volts at the plug to the computer power supply. Could something else impact voltage to that plug?

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    Arrow 1000 w A2100 GibbsCam
    Miller Dynasty SD

  9. #9
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!

    I've lost track of what is or is not needed anymore? Still any issues we can try to help with?

  10. #10
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!

    Start by confirming which drives are in your machine, if Kollmorgen (or Vickers), Kilroy is probably the best to ask the question about whether the drives will be OK with those voltages. I would think you would be safe to at least try to power up at those levels though.
    Regarding your CNC Power supply input. In a normal installation, you should see approximately 130V to ground on each leg, or 230 volts total if you check leg to leg on the cord. The way Cincinnati wired most of these, one leg is always hot, and the other is powered only when you press the start button, so you will need to press the start button to bring the 230V to the control. I have seen a few of the later models power up the control automatically when the main disconnect is turned on though, in which case, there should be 230V immediately when the main disconnect is turned on.

    I'm more concerned with getting you through the initial issues you have now, but once you have the machine working (hopefully without causing any damage), I can help you with the hard drive and battery issues.

  11. #11
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!

    dawg, we sorta cross posted; I did not see your 10am reply, sorry...

    YES as far as the drives are concerned, that 195,199, 235 is best for right now; Maver1ck must reply on control but my guess it should be ok to start up for initial testing.
    Why do you ask if the 35 where you should have 120v is ok? I am not being disrespectful, it just seems you may be working on this machine WITHOUT YOUR WIRING DIAGRAMS?

    If so, you need to call Cincinnati (aka Fives) with your serial number and get a set of prints ASAP - in my opinion. I believe they will happily email you them as a pdf for no charge; if not, post the sn, etc off your nametag here.

    THEN when you wonder about 35Vac at the 120Vac computer plug you can start tracing and see where it goes south. Or perhaps you mean 35vDC when it should be 24Vdc? Not sure without more info which you mean.

  12. #12
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by veggiedawg View Post
    I used to run this machine and recently purchased and moved it to my garage.....Voltage at M20 from phase converter are 235 274 255. Voltage at power supply by hard drive is 158v ..
    Quote Originally Posted by veggiedawg View Post
    Well I have experimented with the rotary phase converter .... 195 199 235.At those settings I am currently reading 35 volts at the plug to the computer power supply.
    Dawg....Are you saying the 158vac became 35vac witih this small change? Something does not jive.... more info please....

  13. #13
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!

    You need to throw in the towel and call a service company that knows your machine. You could blow up the electronics and drives with incorrect voltages. The voltages you are talking about do not make sense.

    meckardt@cncmachineservices (dot) com

  14. #14

    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!

    Buos rial taem

  15. #15
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 1000 A2100 - relocated - HELP!

    Mahdi2022, Buos rial taem; Maybe you meant Bus Real-Time; but that means nothing for this thread??

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