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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Cincinnati CNC > Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 750 - Electrical Wiring Diagram/Schematics missing
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  1. #1
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    Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 750 - Electrical Wiring Diagram/Schematics missing

    Since several days now I am troubleshooting a Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 750 with Vickers Acramatic 2100 (A2100) control software. The machine (built 1995) has several issues as it was sitting unused for many years. It is using the black Kollmorgen drives 3x BDS4 for X,Y,Z axis, VFS5 spindle drive, as well as a PSR452 power supply. I am aware of possible relay issues, but need to narrow it down further. It could also be related to the I/O card (CMHD), Servo card (DV5) or broken wires at the connectors.

    I have a huge box full of manuals here, including the service manual. However, the Table of Contents for Chapter 3 (Electrical System) starts with 3.1.1 and continues with 3.5.1 Electrical Symbols. Are they serious? Parts 3.2, 3.3 and 3.4 are missing purposely! They do give us the meaning of the Electrical Symbols, but EXCLUDED the actual wiring diagram from the service manual!? Seriously, Cincinnati Milacron? After spending several 10,000 EUR at that time you would expect to find a wiring diagram in one of the many manuals, but sadly this is not the case.

    If someone could help me out with the missing schematics (electrical wiring diagrams) for this CNC machine please, that would be really great.

    Any help would be very much appreciated.

    Thank you very much!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails service_manual_cover_1024x768.jpg   service_manual_electrical_toc_1024x768_text_800x600.jpg   5_1024x768_640x480.jpg   1_1024x768_640x480.jpg  

    2_1024x768_640x480.jpg   3_1024x768_640x480.jpg   4_1024x768_640x480.jpg  

  2. #2
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 750 - Electrical Wiring Diagram/Schematics missing

    Contact Fives-MSI 1-859-534-4750; they are the Cincinnati OEM and can sell you prints using the # on the serial plate.
    You probably have dead batteries on the A2100 WS-CPU board (left side) and the RT-CPU (right side) and have lost the BIOS settings.
    The RTCPU must be reloaded by a technician with the proper software and equipment.
    The WSCPU can be done with a PC keyboard and the BIOS settings.
    Both boards have a barcode label with a "3-424-xxxxAyy" number on the bottom inside lip of the board's chassis.
    There are many good resources to help you on this site. They will need detailed information from you to do so.

  3. #3
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 750 - Electrical Wiring Diagram/Schematics missing

    Thanks! Do you know of anyone here in Germany who could help me with schematics?

    About the batteries, you are right. The WS board battery would need replacement but is located inside the DALLAS realtime module soldered on the board (lithium cell lifetime 10-15 years, planned obsolesce). I could replace that module with a slight risk of damage during repair, so I didn't touch this yet (only requires me to press ESC upon boot).

    You are also correct about the RT board battery which I replaced. I did change BIOS settings to what I think is correct and got the machine to boot up with no more errors during start-up diagnosis. Isn't this a sign the board is working correctly???

    Also, please help me to understand this:

    I keep reading on this forum that the RT board needs to be "RE-FLASHED" after battery replacement. This doesn't make much sense to me at the moment. The BIOS is stored in non-volatile FLASH memory which doesn't loose contents when loosing power. What gets lost are only the BIOS settings in my opinion.

    Where is this volatile "software" supposed to reside on the RT board? In which IC ? It can't be held in DRAM as this would need continuous refreshing which would suck out the battery in no time.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails rt_board_800x600.jpg   rt_board_flash_640x480.jpg  

  4. #4
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 750 - Electrical Wiring Diagram/Schematics missing

    tmsw, Both boards have a barcode label with a "3-424-xxxxAyy" number on the bottom inside lip of the board's chassis.
    The BIOS for the WSCPU may be in the back of the Control Reference Manual 7-000-xxxxyy. There are battery hacks for the
    Real-Time-Clock chip battery that refreshes and maintains the BIOS settings. With a PC keyboard on the A2100, you can do a test and go into the BIOS settings at startup by pressing
    the key specified for "SETUP". Set the correct settings for the WSCPU; then Save & Exit. the Board will "warm boot" with the correct settings. See if this makes a difference.

    The settings for the RTCPU may be available on this website in a printout; but the "3-424-xxxxAyy" number must be specified...

    You can purchase the Schematics with Credit card from Fives-MSI Hebron, KY for around $200 USD. They will email them to you as a PDF.
    You must contact them 1st to be setup in the SAP-business System before purchase.

  5. #5
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    Re: Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 750 - Electrical Wiring Diagram/Schematics missing

    I managed to get the electrical wiring diagrams for the machine. Thanks for your advice!

    As for the BIOS settings of the WS board, I think they might not be too critical, but I will have a look at the manual again just to be sure. Yeah, but these "battery hacks" for the RTC module sound a bit risky to me. It might work, but may damage components as well. I'd rather exchange the whole RTC module for a better one which has a battery holder on top. They are being sold on eBay for example.

    Will see if I can get the RT board working as well. If I should need any further help I will open a new thread.

    This thread here was only about the schematics.

    Thanks once again, gwood !

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