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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > HURCO > CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)
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  1. #1
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    CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    Hi
    I have a failed battery in my Hurco VMX42, does anyone know where the battery Located, and what dose it look like?
    I assume I will need to reload some settings/parameters also?
    Any help greatly appreciated.
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]367918 [ATTACH=CONFIG]367920

    Best regards
    Burgs

  2. #2
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    as no members with a Hurco VMX42 has answered

    If your lucky the battery will be in a battery holder
    but its possible they have used a battery that is soldered in
    (to try to ensure you have them service your machine ???)

    going by the bios date I don't expect the CMOS battery to be hidden in a DALLAS DS1287 or DS1387 real time clock IC like this
    Attachment 367930

    I expect its more likely to be either a CR2032 "coin cell" as found in many PC's
    Attachment 367934

    or for example a CR1/2 AA as used in a HASS SR100
    Attachment 367932

    DIY HASS battery replacement
    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas-m...battery-3.html

    John

  3. #3
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    Thanks John
    Would be nice to know where it is hidden?
    Hopefully it is a CR2032
    Have contacted Hurco agent in Melbourne they usually have to contact Hurco technicians in Asia Pacific, hopefully they will come through.
    I think I may have the settings from them before for another issue.
    Best regards
    Burgs

  4. #4
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    Hi
    Might have found the battery?
    Cannot see any information on it yet though.

    Attachment 367952

    Best regards
    Burgs

  5. #5
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    Burgs
    That is the options dongle. it holds the keys to the machine options. judging from the picture above your machine has a MX4 motion board and from the post screen you have a peak570 CPU. It uses a battery like the first picture in John-100 post DALLAS DS1287.
    Remove the cover with the four thumb screws on it in the electrical cabinet. the CPU board will have a heat sink and a fan o it. The battery chip is in a socket with a cable tie keeping it in place,
    Sometimes it can be replaced with a new one and every thing is fine. Trick to these batteries when you buy one new the battery is not turned. I have replaced them before on the peak 570 only had one that would not turn the battery on.
    buy one for 13 dollars and try it out. set the time and date on the CPU set up. turn it off and see if it sticks. If it does then you can go through and set the bios setting. and you are done

  6. #6
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    Hi power
    Thanks for that, have been backwards and forwards with Hurco and we have identified it now just waiting for more instructions, as well as trying to chase up a new one locally.
    Is the battery soldered in place or pulled in and Zip tied there?
    I guess the motherboard needs to be removed to allow access to the battery, any issues to look for when doing that?
    May just have found one in Sydney for $5.90
    Attachment 367954
    Best Regards
    Burgs

  7. #7
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    Hi John/Powerr
    I am unable to source a Dallas DS1287 but can get a DS12887 that is a direct replacement?

    Should the DS12887 have an A at the end of it ie DS12887A as I cannot locate one at this stage?
    Apparently without an A it is password protected?

    I have a DS12887 on the way.

    Best regards
    Burgs

  8. #8
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    yes , the DS12887 is the drop in replacement ( I see RS components have it )

    from the Data sheet

    "What is the difference between the DS12887 and DS12887A?
    The "A" at the end of the part number indicates a "RAM clear" pin.
    This is true for many clock modules, including those from other manufacturers.
    The DS12B887 also has a RAM clear function; however, it works differently than the "A" RAM clear. "

    Attachment 367962

    John

    PS
    from one of many DIY DS1287 repair posts on the web
    Reworking the DS1287 / DS1387 RTC chip

    the module has is a battery connected to pins 16 & 20
    Attachment 367966
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Curiosity killed that cat.jpg 
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ID:	367968



    the DS12885 IC is a version of the IC inside of the module is produced that you connect an external 32.768kHz watch crystal & battery

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DS12885.jpg 
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ID:	367970

  9. #9
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    Hi
    I removed the RTC today and it is a STM from Malaysia, M48T86PC1 W1653Z have contacted an AU distributor and he has sent details to Malaysia to see if they have either a new one or a replacement.
    looked at the modification to add a 3.2V battery, went and bought what I needed as I thought this was a good option but, when I removed the STM unit I didn't know where to tap the battery in as the STM unit has all 24 Pins still, as well as being rated at 4.5 to 5.5 volts?
    I will have a day off tomorrow, got a ride day on my 1972 Norton Commando so will see what happens when I get back tomorrow afternoon, jobs are starting to pile up, which is not good as it has been quite for a while.
    Attachment 368062
    Attachment 368060

    Regards
    Burgs

  10. #10
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    does this help ?
    M48T86 data
    Attachment 368072

    combining diagram from M48T86 data sheet and Reworking the DS1287 / DS1387 RTC chip

    M48T86 battery connections
    Attachment 368074

    John

  11. #11
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    Quote Originally Posted by john-100 View Post
    does this help ?
    M48T86 data
    Attachment 368072

    combining diagram from M48T86 data sheet and Reworking the DS1287 / DS1387 RTC chip

    M48T86 battery connections
    Attachment 368074

    John
    Thanks heaps John
    Should be able to work out from there, but will the CR2032 Battery 3.2V be ok?

    Regards
    Mark

  12. #12
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    yes , the CR2032 is what was used in Reworking the DS1287 / DS1387 RTC chip

    Attachment 368076

    in the same thread to add an external CR2032 to the Dallas RTC
    the original battery connection was cut so the new battery does not charge the old battery

    for comparison
    the pinout of the ST M48T86 v DALLAS DS12887 pin out
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ST  M48T86  v DALLAS DS12887  pin out.jpg 
Views:	6 
Size:	55.0 KB 
ID:	368078


    John

  13. #13
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    Ok will have ago on Thursday hopefully all goes well and I can stat cutting again.
    Best regards
    Burgs

  14. #14
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    They are all over ebay.
    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...p2045573.m1684
    I have never tried one of actual same chips the dallas always seemed to work in all but one board.

  15. #15
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    Hi Powerr
    I had a look through a heap of these M48T86 PC1 on Ebay, but totally confused as to what the other numbers are, as none have been the same as what is in the Hurco?
    other numbers are H99420323 and W1653Z are they batch or date stamps or what is inside??
    Been quoted $263 AU from Hurco has to come from Singapore if any of the Ebay ones would work it would be good $3.?
    I connected a battery (CR2032) up to day on to the old unit as per previous emails and the internet but still have battery failed message, is 3.2 V enough?

    regards
    Burgs

  16. #16
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    how easy to read the various numbers depends on the manufacturer to some extent

    the extra part added to the basic part number
    gives you the temperature range and the package information eg DIP , EDIP or PLCC

    very often the date is the last two numbers of the year and the week either YYWW or WWYY
    some times a bar over the week indicates a second production run that week
    other markings indicate which assembly plant they came from - the silicon wafer being made in one USA plant

    IC Manufacturers

    IC's are some times made by two or more manufactures
    either because the original manufacture can not make enough and has an agreement with others to second source their product
    resulting in an IC having two part numbers depending on who made it
    years later some of these ventures resulted costly copy right infringement cases !!

    other times it depends on the target market
    for example Philips IC's can either have Philips own part numbers or Mullard part numbers ( they own mullard )
    or both numbers
    note - Philips semiconductors are now NXP



    John

    PS
    the paper lable may well be the Hurco VMX42 part number ,
    possibly indicating its pre programmed but I'd expect its more likely to be done when the machine is set up

    PPS
    in this photo
    Attachment 368284
    in the small picture you can see it looks like a DIL (dual in line) IC has had a watch crystal and battery added
    the new assembly has been potted in a plastic box to form the EDIP version with the battery

    the -150 on the end of the ST Microelectronics part number M48T12-150 is the speed of the SRAM memory in ns
    http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/389/stmic...424-330126.pdf

    yes , the CR2032 battery should of worked

    did you test the voltage between pins 16 & 20 ?
    you should of seen the output of the internal battery

    ( on the Dallas RTC they have bent up pins 2 & 3 to connect the crystal and pins 16 & 20 for the battery connection so you have to cut the epoxy away )

  17. #17
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    Hi John
    I tested the pins 16 and 20 before I started cutting as I thought there might be a little bit of voltage left, and had no power or resistance which I thought odd.
    When I finished the job and fitted the battery I had 3.3 volts across the pins 16 and 20.
    As you say the pins on Dallas unit are bent up but on the STM unit they are all in place ie 24 pins when I cut the epoxy away, the body of the pins went in towards the middle of the housing I cut the ground pin as per the instructions, and that left the # 16 pin loose, so I removed it and ground the inner part of the pin down so it would not make contact.
    I soldered a wire onto the loose pin then applied epoxy to the housing and set the pin back in place.
    I also tested power across pins 12 Vss ground and pin 24 Vcc power supply? not sure what this means but there is no voltage but when I checked resistance there is resistance.
    Do not know where to go from here?
    Attachment 368336 Attachment 368338 Attachment 368340

  18. #18
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    like the ST M48T86PC1 the Dallas RTC DS1287 is a modified RTC IC with a battery & crystal added

    looking at the photos of the Dallas RTC DS1287 battery replacement

    Attachment 368342
    Attachment 368344

    you can make out the DS12885 with pins 16 and 20 have been bent up to be connected to the battery
    pins 21 & 22 have been removed
    not visible in the photo the watch crystal will be connected to pins 2 & 3

    the assembly is potted in a black plastic box and re numbered to indicate it now has the internal battery


    pins 16 & 20 on the ST M48T86PC1 should not be loose as it goes into the original DIL package to be connected to the silicon die
    only the connection to the original battery needs to be cut so your new battery does not charge the old one

    you need to solder to the remains of the pins as they go into the original Dual In Line IC that would of looked like this DS12885
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DS12885.jpg 
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ID:	368346

    looking at your photo
    Attachment 368348

    it looks like pin 16 is cut so you will need to find the remaining stub to attach the negative battery terminal

    its not clear if pin 20 is ok


    John

  19. #19
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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    Hi John
    I can think I can see the error in my ways I needed to dig further into the housing as when I isolated the battery too soon I needed to do it back past or maybe right at the battery so to maintain the circuit.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Bat.jpg 
Views:	5 
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ID:	368364

    regards
    Burgs

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    Re: CMOS Battery Failed VMX42 (2005)

    Yahoo, got a result but now showing a ATC error tool changer out of position.
    I exposed the battery the cut the ground tag off the battery, and soldered the external battery lead to the tag.
    Turned machine on and notice it came up with default CMOS loaded and it stopped hit enter and away it went, but then ATC tool changer out of position error.
    Will restart and check the CMOS settings and see what happens then.

    Attachment 368374 Attachment 368376

    Burgs

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