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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Daewoo/Doosan > Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run
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  1. #1
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    Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run

    Hi all,
    I'm getting rid of my bar feeder to make room for a new mill. After disconnecting the bar feeder, the lathe throws a OP Emergency PB/LS Off alarm along with some other messages. I think if I fix this alarm the other stuff will go away.

    Is there a parameter to change in the Puma control to get it to stop looking for the bar feeder, or do I need to bridge the two terminals in the cabinet that went to the bar feeder EMG button? I can't find any parameters that look related to the bar feeder at all.

    Daewoo Puma 8s with Meldas control. Bar feeder is a SMW Spacesaver 2000.

  2. #2
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run

    Quote Originally Posted by runninwideopen View Post
    Hi all,

    Is there a parameter to change in the Puma control to get it to stop looking for the bar feeder, or do I need to bridge the two terminals in the cabinet that went to the bar feeder EMG button?
    In general most machines would require that the E-stop switch on an aux piece of equipment be in series with with the machine E-stop, so yes, I think the bar feeder E-stop terminals should be jumped .

    The machine may also be looking for a ''ready'' signal input.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

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    Re: Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run

    I jumped them, but no change. Found the wiring diagram for the bar feeder. It has an E Stop circuit on both the Input and Output cables. Both connect to a relay in the Puma. 2 wires ea.

    The Output relay has 1 wire with 24v from Puma and 2 wires to bar feeder.

    The Input relay has 1 wire with 24v and 1 output wire to Puma. 2 wires to bar feeder. This relay is normally closed.

    I'm struggling to figure out how this equates to the bar feeder. Probably not enough info for you to help - but maybe the right question could get me headed the right direction?

    Thanks.

  4. #4
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run

    If the bar feeder is still in position or at least near the machine, then reconnect the cables and get some voltage measurements to understand the electrical logic of the system. Then it should be easy to duplicate the state that makes the machine happy.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  5. #5
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    Re: Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run

    I just found this.
    I usually monitor the Daewoo/Doosan Forum, but I did a few extra searches today.

    Has this been resolved, or is it still an issue?
    Doosan Service Technician
    darryl.hardt@doosanmt.com O:973-618-2461 M:973-803-9479

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhardt View Post
    I just found this.
    I usually monitor the Daewoo/Doosan Forum, but I did a few extra searches today.

    Has this been resolved, or is it still an issue?
    Resolved. I found the right connections to jump, but I can’t remember what they are.

  7. #7
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    Re: Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run

    Cool.

    As a previous SMW Systems, Barfeed Department Service Provider, I wrote the manual for the Spacesaver 2000.

    I currently work for Doosan Machine Tools America as the A.M. of Training.

    I would probably be the best person on the planet to assist with this particular issue.

    I just wanted to make certain that you had gotten resolved.

    Have a great day.
    Doosan Service Technician
    darryl.hardt@doosanmt.com O:973-618-2461 M:973-803-9479

  8. #8
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    Re: Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run

    To anyone finding this, looking for the resolution:
    The attached PDF is a modern Doosan Universal Barfeed Interface.

    For the Lathe to function after removing the Barfeed.

    The KSMW Keep Relay K7.3 would get set back to 0
    The JPC1 jumper (section B5 or B6-ish of attached PDF) would need to get replaced
    It is located near the XTBL1 connector of the PCB I/O Board

    If can not be located, or the Interface is older: the same results can be created by jumping the pins of the Harting Plug mounted into the bulkhead of the lathe.
    Jump pin 21 to 24
    Jump pin 23 to 22
    These pins are displayed as small, dark squares in the D-row of the attached drawing
    (the E-stop mentioned on pins 5 and 6 are insignificant, as they are for the barfeed to be estopped and it is no longer powered up)
    Doosan Service Technician
    darryl.hardt@doosanmt.com O:973-618-2461 M:973-803-9479

  9. #9
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    Re: Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run

    Quote Originally Posted by dhardt View Post
    To anyone finding this, looking for the resolution:
    The attached PDF is a modern Doosan Universal Barfeed Interface.

    For the Lathe to function after removing the Barfeed.

    The KSMW Keep Relay K7.3 would get set back to 0
    The JPC1 jumper (section B5 or B6-ish of attached PDF) would need to get replaced
    It is located near the XTBL1 connector of the PCB I/O Board

    If can not be located, or the Interface is older: the same results can be created by jumping the pins of the Harting Plug mounted into the bulkhead of the lathe.
    Jump pin 21 to 24
    Jump pin 23 to 22
    These pins are displayed as small, dark squares in the D-row of the attached drawing
    (the E-stop mentioned on pins 5 and 6 are insignificant, as they are for the barfeed to be estopped and it is no longer powered up)

    Is this basically the same for a Lynx220LSY interfaced with an LNS bar feeder? I changed the Keep Relay K7.1 back to 0.
    Help me understand the JPC1 jumper situation. I found it and it has two little switches that were set ON. Do I just turn them off, set the Keep Relay to 0 and unplug the bar feeder?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by n8ronj View Post
    Is this basically the same for a Lynx220LSY interfaced with an LNS bar feeder? I changed the Keep Relay K7.1 back to 0.
    Help me understand the JPC1 jumper situation. I found it and it has two little switches that were set ON. Do I just turn them off, set the Keep Relay to 0 and unplug the bar feeder?
    The jumpers are to take the barfffeder's ESTOP off without causing an Estop.
    If, after removing the HARTING plug, an Estop occurs, flip the dipp switch.
    Doosan Service Technician
    darryl.hardt@doosanmt.com O:973-618-2461 M:973-803-9479

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    Re: Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run

    Quote Originally Posted by dhardt View Post
    The jumpers are to take the barfffeder's ESTOP off without causing an Estop.
    If, after removing the HARTING plug, an Estop occurs, flip the dipp switch.
    Thank you for your reply. About an hour ago I got a call back from our Doosan tech and he confirmed all of this.

    I changed the Keep Relay K7.1 to 0
    Shut down the machine.
    I unplugged the Harting plug and jumped 21-24 and 22-23 on the Doosan.
    Turned on the machine and there was no 2099 - Bar Feeder Alarm.

    We will be replacing the battery in the LNS and going from there to see if it will even work. And, oddly enough once we get it working I will bypass it again. In the past three years we have never used it or even needed to. We are a prototype shop not a job shop.

    This thread is the only information I could find about disconnecting and bypassing the bar feeder. I appreciate the help!

  12. #12

    Re: Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run

    I have an issue somewhat related to this thread but I can't follow some of the terminology here (Keep Relay 7.1, JPC1, etc..) Possibly someone can throw me a clue.

    I bought a machine and bar feed at auction that hadn't been used in a few years. I am sure it has several issues, but I can't get past the bar feed alarm to test it out. The machine is a Daewoo Puma 200LC SNPM201090. The bar loader is SMW 2003 (SPAC.2008) SN 09-275, I have the books, diagrams, etc...

    At the most basic level I just want to zero the machine and run a simple program and see what I have. I have fixed the hydraulic power pack and a few other things to get this far.

    I have had some people look at it and I think they've jacked with the bar feed wiring and I'm trying to put it back together.

    I would like to either properly wire the bar feeder or just remove the bar feeder and complete the wiring steps so the machine is no longer held by an alarm.

    Can this be explained to me or can anyone recommend a knowledgeable person in the Dallas area that I can make a service call to?

    Thanks
    Bob

  13. #13
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    Re: Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run

    Quote Originally Posted by neoindustries View Post
    I have an issue somewhat related to this thread but I can't follow some of the terminology here (Keep Relay 7.1, JPC1, etc..) Possibly someone can throw me a clue.

    I bought a machine and bar feed at auction that hadn't been used in a few years. I am sure it has several issues, but I can't get past the bar feed alarm to test it out. The machine is a Daewoo Puma 200LC SNPM201090. The bar loader is SMW 2003 (SPAC.2008) SN 09-275, I have the books, diagrams, etc...

    At the most basic level I just want to zero the machine and run a simple program and see what I have. I have fixed the hydraulic power pack and a few other things to get this far.

    I have had some people look at it and I think they've jacked with the bar feed wiring and I'm trying to put it back together.

    I would like to either properly wire the bar feeder or just remove the bar feeder and complete the wiring steps so the machine is no longer held by an alarm.

    Can this be explained to me or can anyone recommend a knowledgeable person in the Dallas area that I can make a service call to?

    Thanks
    Bob


    The SMW 2003 has some orange relays on the mother board. They have manual activation "flip-up" levers on them.
    One of them is K2: This should be the Spacesaver OK signal.
    If wired correctly, even with the power off, one position of the lever (UP/DOWN) should allow the alarm to clear.
    You can sort out the next interface issue after that...
    With four inputs and four outputs to the interface, you can expect a potential of 8 issue (barring issues of miswiring or broken items)

    Your MELDAS control does not have the Keep relays and "JPC" is a jumper connection that is removed when adding an accessory.
    Doosan Service Technician
    darryl.hardt@doosanmt.com O:973-618-2461 M:973-803-9479

  14. #14
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    Re: Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run

    A meldas to SMW interface from the 52 series of controls
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Meldas SMW interface.jpg  
    Doosan Service Technician
    darryl.hardt@doosanmt.com O:973-618-2461 M:973-803-9479

  15. #15
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    Re: Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run

    from the 64 series:
    They might be the same. It was easier to provide both, than to compare/contrast...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Meldas 64 SMW interface.jpg  
    Doosan Service Technician
    darryl.hardt@doosanmt.com O:973-618-2461 M:973-803-9479

  16. #16

    Re: Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run

    Thank you. That helped. The alarm cleared and I verified the wiring. There are still numerous issues to work through, but I had been stuck on that alarm for several months. I purchased the machine and bar feeder last summer for $250 fully understanding it would not be a production asset anytime soon.

    I already had two different machine tool dealer techs and an independent tech look at it before posting on this forum. They all told me how little they knew about the equipment, did nothing, but still took my money.

    Thanks again. Much appreciated.

    Bob

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by neoindustries View Post
    Thank you. That helped. The alarm cleared and I verified the wiring. There are still numerous issues to work through, but I had been stuck on that alarm for several months. I purchased the machine and bar feeder last summer for $250 fully understanding it would not be a production asset anytime soon.

    I already had two different machine tool dealer techs and an independent tech look at it before posting on this forum. They all told me how little they knew about the equipment, did nothing, but still took my money.

    Thanks again. Much appreciated.

    Bob
    SMW Systems is still in business under the name ATS Systems 800 423 4651 will still reach them for technical support.
    Doosan Service Technician
    darryl.hardt@doosanmt.com O:973-618-2461 M:973-803-9479

  18. #18
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    Re: Disconnected bar feeder and now Puma will not run

    I'm having a similar issue with my Daewoo Lynx 200. It has a Mitsubishi Meldas 50M control and Spacesaver 2000 barfeed. The machine always displays a bar feed alarm. I tried disconnecting the barfeed and jumping pin 10 to 11 and 22 to 23 per the diagram above. But I still can't get the alarm to clear. Can anybody point me in the right direction?

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