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IndustryArena Forum > GENERAL MANUFACTURING PROCESSES > MILLING > Does anyone keep a vice mounted to table??
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  1. #1
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    Does anyone keep a vice mounted to table??

    I have an older vertical knee machine with a 42x16 table, i keep a 6" vice already zeroed to the x axis permanently mounted towards one side, but capillary action pulls flood coolant between table and vice causing discoloring and surface rust ...should i fill the void with a heavy grease, or can i use something like gun bluing on the vice and table in that area??

    Thank for all the help,
    Scott

  2. #2
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: Does anyone keep a vice mounted to table??

    Maybe try cleaning the surfaces with some Scotch Brite, then stone to finish. Then a couple coats of a good Carnauba car wax on the surfaces.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  3. #3
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    Re: Does anyone keep a vice mounted to table??

    Thank you, i hadn't thought about wax, i think coolant would still capillary under the vice, i'm not sure wax is strong enough to keep coolant and solvents from penetrating the gap between the vice and table, but i'm willing to try it... i'll wax it up and check it in a few weeks..my first thought grease, because it would rapel the water, then i thought about gun bluing, but its a BIG table, and gun blue is technically an acid if i understand it correctly, it corrodes the surface and seals the pores in the metal to help prevent rust..has anyone used any of these techniques, does anyone have a preferred permanent solution?? I doubt i'm the only person to encounter this issue..

    I don't even know what type of coolant in in the machine i purchased the machine used in February and it already had some coolant in it. But it was like soft butter coming out of the nozzle...i siphined about 5 gal out into a translucent container and let it separate, then pumped the cleaner solution that settled in between thick syrup layer on top and the thin water layer bottom back into machine and added about 2 gal of distilled water to bring it back up to full..i ended up with a translucent lubricating liquid the flows easy and keeps the chips washed out and without clogging the pump or return channels, so i was happy until i noticed the surface rust starting to build around the edges of vice..

    Thank you again for all the help..

    Scott

  4. #4

    Re: Does anyone keep a vice mounted to table??

    grease is too thick , just put way lube under the vise . You may get some discoloration but thats harmless and a scotchbrite pad would resolve that .

  5. #5
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: Does anyone keep a vice mounted to table??

    It really sounds like you need to change the coolant, you should do that every few months. I have had good luck with Blaser products. https://www.blaser.com/en_US
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  6. #6

    Re: Does anyone keep a vice mounted to table??

    I second the new coolant idea. You really must get a refractometer and keep you're coolant at the proper concentration if possible. That will help. Also you generally never add water to coolant without mixing it with at least a little coolant concentrate. My experience is mostly with oil emulsions. One wonders if full synthetics would be even touchier about concentration.

    I use Qualchem 251C and can leave vises mounted indefinitely without any problem at all. When this stuff dries back it turns into pure oil, or at least it seems like it. Previously I used Trim E206, which also worked pretty well but would want to start staining and corroding when the concentration started getting too high. (which is typical of most coolants left sitting around evaporating) or when it started getting too old.

  7. #7
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    Re: Does anyone keep a vice mounted to table??

    Thank you for the suggestion of coolant, i know my coolant is far from perfect, but as a hobbiest i don't have the serious money or cutting demands to justify new coolant. I was originally trying to reduce the coolant with with some thread cutting oil, but nobody here sells more than 1qt at a time..i did purchase a few quarts online, and added them to the machine mix.

    my coolant actually does a very good job, but it is still contains a portion of water and does still have a corrosive effect.. The water evaperates out pretty quickly here, and i am slowly replacing it with other coolants when available..im in the desert southwest our summers average 118°F daily with less than 10% humidity...

  8. #8
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    Re: Does anyone keep a vice mounted to table??

    Ok spent some time out in shop today, i ordered a gal of coolant as suggested($45 +shipping), and i waxed the whole table, and even though i was not recommended i still aplied a thin layer of grease to vice to repel any water that may try to get in..i remounted the vice and plumbed to +/-.0001 on x axis and .002° incline.. (i know, but after like 20min trying to get .000 inclind i gave up) and i releveled the machine, because it shifted just a hair and spindle was .05 incline to left..

    Thank you all for your suggestions on ways to keep corrosion down with flood coolant,
    Scott

    ( i'll try to monitor the wax and see how it holds up against the flood coolant..try to update if it starts to show discoloration again)

  9. #9
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    Re: Does anyone keep a vice mounted to table??

    but after like 20min trying to get .000 inclind i gave up
    hy swhowardno, i grew up inside a place where many parts where restored, thus they were not crafted from zero, but refreshed

    switching fixtures, centering, cleaning ... is a thing

    from time to time, even if a fixture is aligned, is ok to unmount and remount it

    vices, on cnc tables :
    ... 3 axis : just screw them, probe whatever is needed, and rotate the program in [xy] plane
    ... 5 axis : above and/or tilt the axis ( for example, to bring the face in [xy] plane )

    if you need to align at least 2 vices, one in respect to the other, just screw them while clamping a long prismatic with both of them ...

    a good vice makes contact only arround it's perimeter ( or only arround the clamping area ), for, let's say 10-20mm offset, and not on all surface

    corrosion can only be postponed : keep coolant concentration high, and the machine runing .... if, for example, the machine will stay for 1 week, simply move it each day a bit, and let the coolant flow; coolant, like water, has to flow ...

    The water evaperates out pretty quickly here, and i am slowly replacing it with other coolants when available..im in the desert southwest our summers average 118°F daily with less than 10% humidity
    you may use a spray with thin oil, like those for cleaning windows, and spray vice area from time to time, but if rust appears, inspect also other machine areas, that are more important than a vice ...

    if only vice area gets rusty, then is ok, means that vice material is low quality, or old, etc
    if other machine areas are geting rusty, then try to find out what is happening; 1st suspect is coolant / kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  10. #10

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    Re: Does anyone keep a vice mounted to table??

    Deadlykitten does give a specific description, great!

    Pintuu

  11. #11

    Re: Does anyone keep a vice mounted to table??

    Here's an idea... how about removing your vise when you're done with a project, or if you know you're not going to be back for awhile? Mounting and dismounting a 6" vise takes just a few minutes. If it's taking longer then that then it's only because you haven't practiced enough. I spoke earlier about leaving vises mounted practically forever on one machine, but that's only because I can, as corrosion is not a problem on that machine. I have other machines that I almost never leave vises mounted to because the setups are changing constantly. Let alone worrying about corrosion.

    Seriously. Mounting and tramming vises is Machining 101. Hobbyist or not, it's not rocket science. You'll get good at it with practice. To help your cause, or if you're feeling lazy some days, spend the 30 odd dollars and buy yourself some hardened vise keys. Using keys is going to place the vise in a usable position for all but the most critical of work. Kurt and others sell almost any combination of vise key width to T-slot width, so finding the right one for your particular setup should be no problem.

    Think about it.

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