[panaceabea]

I have a duplomatic bsv200 tool turret with 12 station tool plate I need to control on a lathe retrofit I am doing , does anyone have any experience with the duplomatic turret?

Here is the machine I am working on , its new and was still on the original pallet but does not have a controller or amps/drives for the servo motors.

I have sorted out all the wiring and have new drives coming for the x and z axis servos . I have all the home switches limits , hyd tailstock pumps oilers and small details sorted out but I am just down to figuring out how to unlock and index the turret , Looking at the simple print duplomatic sent I see a coil that needs to be energised 24v to unlock and I see the two windings that need to be energised 240v , one for ccw one for cw. The pin out for the big cannon typ plug shows an individual pin for each position on the turret, are these signal pins that simply tell the plc what position the turret is at? or are these the individual pins that need to be energised to cause the turret to rotate to that paticular location.

Also curious what type PLC and controller you guys might reccomend for this machine to get it back up and running? I would like to use mach and a std pc since I am familiar . Any thoghts or positive advice welcome.

[Al_The_Man]

Not familiar with that make of lathe, but usually the position sensor are inputs to the PLC to indicate in position, some have a double lot that indicate approach, or will go into slow when the adjacent position is reached, you need to get full documentation on the turret in order to supply and program, is there no support from the manufacturer?
If you are going with a separate PLC, almost any make will do, one of my favourite's is Mitsubishi.
you could output the M code bit from mach and then send a Fin(ish) signal back when in position.
I see it also has a probe included in the turret, you will need probe macro's also to put that in operation.
Whose make and type are the servo motors?
Al.

[panaceabea]

Lathe is a Moog Hydrapoint which was absorbed by Hurco in aprox 1990
servo motors are 66 lbin GE 3phase ac

probe is renishaw and has an interface inside the main cabinet, there is another behind a door just above the spindle that extends out to set up the tools. It would be nice to get the probes working at some point down the line but currently just trying to work thru all the basics.
I do have a 5 page pdf file from the tool turret manufacturer, Duplomatic, If i can figure out how to post the one page with wiring diagram I will , so far other than reccomending I contact a trained technician thats all they have been able/willing to offer

[Al_The_Man]

If you have the details in PDF, you should be able to post the whole thing as an attachment (500kb).
If too large, you could use a file posting site, like Divshare etc.
Or I could send you an address via a PM to take a look at it.
Al.

[panaceabea]

here is a link to the file

http://www.thompsonmachine.net/img/mhp/dup.pdf

[Al_The_Man]

co-incidentally I had a retro fit recently that used a similar turret, It was Italian also so I believe it is the same make.
The set up looks almost identical.
You have to program the sequence according to the timing diagram.
In the one I did it has a 3phase motor for the turret rotation, index limit switches and electro-magnet clamp & unclamp, as well as a final mechanical clamp.
The sequence is magnetic unclamp, start motor clockwise, look for position switch, stop motor, reverse motor for brief clamp, energise magnetic clamp (reverse polarity to unclamp).
It appears to be a 3 phase index motor also.
Al.

[panaceabea]

Hi Al , I spoke with the fellow at duplomatic for nearly an hour today and thats exactly how he described its operation to me, that portion seems like it will be pretty simple to program a basic PLC to handle , its the position sensing and indexing to the proper location that I am a little unsure how to program for. The fellow mentioned there are two contacts per station , one tells the PLC the called out position is comming up and the second tells the plc that the desired position is reached. Any thoughts or advice on which plc would be suitable and how to program for this paticular turret greatly appreciated. They are sending me a xerox coppie of te manual in a few weeks.

[Al_The_Man]

If the system you are using does not have enough capability or capacity for the PLC functions, then if going with an external PLC, almost any one would suffice as the functions are pretty basic, just has to have timers for the indexing as well as the usual input/output.
My particular favourite is Mitsubishi, I have the PG s/w for this if you need it.
The thing I am not sure of with this particular turret model, is that usually the purpose of two switches, is the first is an approach switch that tells the turret so go into slow speed until the in-posn sw is seen & then it stops.
But I am not sure how they intend to slow the motor down as it is an ordinary 3 phase motor, unless you put on a vfd?
When using a PLC with a CNC controller, there is usually a basic communication, when a T signal is programmed, you would have to indicate to the PLC that a T function is selected and a Binary or BCD value for the tool number. The CNC program then hangs until it see's a Fin(ish) signal back from the turret PLC that is is done, and the Part program proceeds.
Al.

[panaceabea]

Yes the first terminal at each station tells the plc the proper station is approaching , I was also wondered how to slow the 3 phase motor. I found a copy of the original manual that should be here in about two weeks, I called the mitsubishi rep twice for information on their products and have yet to have anyone call me back . I ordered one of the dl06 PLCs from automation direct . I have just started reading the manual and playing with the software to program it, looks pretty straight forward, just a big learning curve

[Al_The_Man]

The one I did was just a 4 posn post tool changer and did not have the slow down, but was virtually the same motor, there is not many options for slowing it down.
Al.

[philserveng]

This is an MHP machine built in Cheltenham, England. Latterly, they were made by Geo Kingsbury who are in Gosport, England where the last few were built. If you contact them maybe they can help you out with some information. Yes, the turret is Duplomatic and are a "poor mans" Sauter turret and work in a very similar way. The shotbolt engages to allow the turret to be unclamped, when it has, the shotbolt coil is de-energised and the motor can then rotate the turret disk clockwise or CCW. The shot bolt fires in again one station before the tool station call, when it drops in to locate the turret the motor reverses direction to clamp the turret, at which time the shotbolt de-engerges again. The shotbolt is monitored with a pxy switch. Turret count is with either count switches or an angle encoder.

[panaceabea]

Thanks for the info , is MHP still in operation in England? This machine has a metal plaque on the side that says proudly made in America and list an adress in New York , When I google the info from the data plate I find info on MHP here in the US being purchased by Hurco and their product lines being merged

[philserveng]

yes, the company is called Geo Kingsbury, Gosport. The web site is "www.testrigs.co.uk" and I know they built these machines until a few years ago. It is quite possible they were built under licence in the USA, this could explain why your machine has the control and other parts were missing. They originally had Allen Bradley and later Fanuc OT and 21i CNC controls. Hope this is of help.

[PMT]

I programmed on a few years ago working like Al's: pull pin, rotate, shoot pin, reverse to clamp. 3 phase motor does not slow down. I believe position was indicated by 4 bit binary switch. I used Fanucs internal PLC on 18 control. I am not sure how you would communicate between CNC and DL6 plc to call up specific station. With a bigger PLC I soppose you could send a binary code from CNC and program PLC to match but you would need alot more IO than the DL 06 has. Also Fanuc has function like ROT that are helpful in bi directional turret control such as this.

[panaceabea]

How many I/O do you suppose will be needed? the DL6 is expandable to around 80.

[udrııl79]

duplomatic c axis turret is very very bad.

sauter is 1 numero

duplomatic live tool problem
duplomatıc refroit problem
duplomatıc cable diagram problem
duplomatıc accucary problem

more more problem.

[panaceabea]

I have been speaking with the fellow at Sauter about replacing the duplomatic with there 480 blue series turrets . The Sauter turret cost as much as I originaly payed for the machine but considering the machine still only has aprox 400 spindle hours since new It might be agood investment. I have retrofitted machine with new 2k servos and amps and a pc based controller. It has been running like a top .

I shut the machine down Friday , arrived back at the shop Monday morning and for some reason the tool changer is having problems doing a tool change. Normaly when a tool change is called out the brake releases, the pin lifts and the turret rotates to the correct position . It pauses and I hear the pin drop, with the cover off I can see the pin is properly engaged. At this point the direction of the motor is reversed and normaly I hear a click as the tool changer locks in position and then the motor shuts off, plc send a signal back to the controller and lathe proceeds as normal.

When I powered the machine up Monday everything seemed normal, tool disk unlocks , rotates into position , lock pin drops , and then the motor reverses as normal but I never hear the light gear whine then click that I am used to and the motor continues to attempt to turn the disk until thermal overload or I switch the PLC off.

I dont think anything would have changed with the programming, I did reload the ladder just in case but no change. Does anyone have any thoughts or things I should look for? The tool changer has on occasion done this in the past and usualy I can unlock the brake and rotate it slightly by depressing the contactor for the motor and everything is fine.

I am wondering if when the motor reverses there is a cam or some sort of over center lever that is supposed to lock the turret thats not co-operating. Possibly just sticking or a little tight? I have opened a few of the covers on the turret and there is no coolant intrusion and the grease on the few gears I can get to looks soft. This machine did sit unused on the original shipping pallet for almost 20 years before I bought it , might there possibly be a little surface rust on some part i need to look at?

Any thoughts or help greatly appreciated, I am desperate to get this machine back online and making parts as soon as possible, I am very close to spending the money on a new turret which i really dont want to do .

Here is a link to the manual for the tool changer and I will be posting a copy of my ladder in a few minutes in the event someone familiar with plc programing might see a problem. http://www.thompsonmachine.net/img/mhp/dup.pdf

[macona]

I would say the microswitch that senses locked position is bad.

[panaceabea]

Watching the PLC I see the led light indicating the switch is working but I am not hearing the familar mechanical clunk, My thoughts are what ever mechanical function thats supposed to happen when the motor reverses is not happening.

Is there a simple way to view the cam or lock thats supposed to engage?

[panaceabea]

I have pulled the rear of the turret off to expose the motor , switch encoder etc. The turret is going thru the proper sequence of lifting the shot bolt, rotating , dropping the shot bolt at the proper time and reversing the motor. When the motor reverses what ever the mechanical device in the turret thats supposed to lock is simply not functioning. I am not hereing the familar clunk (different noise than the shotbolt) and the disk that acuates the switch is not lifting the .10" or so to press the switch. In fact its not lifting the disk at all.

Since the machine was shut down working on friday and wouldnt work Mon morning that its just a matter of the locking device sticking. Hopefully there is somebody on the group with experience with duplomatic turrets thats had, seen or heard of this issue. Thanks