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  1. #1
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    Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    I got this Emcoturn 120 lathe with TM02 control locally a month or so ago and am now working to gather materials to retrofit it to a modern control. The lathe is pretty clean, I dont think it has a lot of hours on it. The previous owner had it powered up and was moving the axis and changer, however I did not see that. He said the display would come on sometimes, sometimes not. I also got the transformer for the machine. I pretty much intended this to go to a retrofit to Mach3 from the start, so I was more worried about the bones than the brains. I was going to change the steppers but found a good deal on a pair of 5ph controllers so Ill keep the current steppers. I found a control for the Siemans DC spindle, but in the end I think long term it is better to replace that with a 3ph AC and VFD,so I bought a metric 5hp with an IES100 frame, so it should fit with no mods, however I may put a larger pulley on it because the RPM is only 3500, since its 5hp I dont think I will have any issue with overdriving the spindle to 6K, a 1.7:1 ratio will get me back to 6K RPM, I will need to determine if this physically fits. Anyway, thats where Im at so far. I would like to do a thorough estop circuit if anyone wants to post a diagram that would be greatly appreciated. I wont have a dedicated computer, the plan is to use a USB smoothstepper with a CNC4PC C25 LPT board, which is what I used for my bridgeport and router. I will need to get in touch with the guys doing the emco turret PCB, and would like to get some details about needed fuse, breakers, contactors, relays to make a door switch, spindle speed control and feedback, threading, all the good stuff.

    thanx in advance for all the help

  2. #2
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    so far bought a spindle motor and the axis stepper drivers. Its not inverter duty but Im going to try it, since its larger HP my hope is it will not have temp issues. Have the VFD identified but its common so no hurry. Im going to Ebay the Emco drivers to raise money for the retrofit, I also have the transformer to sell. Im modelling the control to fit in a commercial wall cabinet, should have pics soon of the 3D models.
    Attachment 314600Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #3
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    motor was delivered today. I have a pretty good handle on the rest of the control except for the turret. I put in a request for info from Barrowdynamics for the emco turret PCBA he has created but have not heard back. if that doesnt pan out I think I will try to work it out with an arduino. Im impressed with the cnc4pc offerings and will likely move from the simple parallel breakout to their more complete board with a watchdog circuit and relays for 3 devices.

  4. #4
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    proposed control in 24x24 metal wall cabinet

    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #5
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by CincyTJ View Post
    so far bought a spindle motor and the axis stepper drivers. Its not inverter duty but Im going to try it, since its larger HP my hope is it will not have temp issues. Have the VFD identified but its common so no hurry. Im going to Ebay the Emco drivers to raise money for the retrofit, I also have the transformer to sell. Im modelling the control to fit in a commercial wall cabinet, should have pics soon of the 3D models.
    Attachment 314600Click image for larger version. 

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    You don't need to change the Pulley with this motor, you will need the 5hp for your machining, this motor will do the 6,000 Rpm you need by just using your VFD programing
    Mactec54

  6. #6
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by CincyTJ View Post
    motor was delivered today. I have a pretty good handle on the rest of the control except for the turret. I put in a request for info from Barrowdynamics for the emco turret PCBA he has created but have not heard back. if that doesnt pan out I think I will try to work it out with an arduino. Im impressed with the cnc4pc offerings and will likely move from the simple parallel breakout to their more complete board with a watchdog circuit and relays for 3 devices.
    I tried to contact Barrowdynamics also with no reply back, post it they get back to you
    Mactec54

  7. #7
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    You don't need to change the Pulley with this motor, you will need the 5hp for your machining, this motor will do the 6,000 Rpm you need by just using your VFD programing
    thats great thanx, I wasnt sure if I could overdrive it 100% without heat issues. Likely I wouldnt be using the 6000RPM for 99% of the stuff I want to do anyway, but I do have some small aluminum parts and would like the capability. Do you think the continuous duty ather than inverter duty will have an issue? Finding a metric 100 frame and 3-5hp and inverter duty proved frustrating at best. I imagine in Europe it would have been much easier but the pickings are slim in US.

  8. #8
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    Im conceptualizing a magnetic pickup to positively identify the tool position at start up and during use rather than finding position 1 then resetting. Should be a simpler method but it may preclude using the barrow board and mach3 code anyway.

  9. #9
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by CincyTJ View Post
    thats great thanx, I wasnt sure if I could overdrive it 100% without heat issues. Likely I wouldnt be using the 6000RPM for 99% of the stuff I want to do anyway, but I do have some small aluminum parts and would like the capability. Do you think the continuous duty ather than inverter duty will have an issue? Finding a metric 100 frame and 3-5hp and inverter duty proved frustrating at best. I imagine in Europe it would have been much easier but the pickings are slim in US.
    Baldor Washdown motors are rated to 6,000 in there spec's, I have run them at 8,000 if you get one get it with the Rotor Grounding Brush already mounted, you will have a much better Bearing life, this is something to add to your VFD driven motor, or any for that matter
    Mactec54

  10. #10
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by CincyTJ View Post
    Im conceptualizing a magnetic pickup to positively identify the tool position at start up and during use rather than finding position 1 then resetting. Should be a simpler method but it may preclude using the barrow board and mach3 code anyway.
    I guess you know the the turret only rotates CCW to find a tool, once it has a tool it will rotate forward CW a small amount to lock
    Mactec54

  11. #11
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    I guess you know the the turret only rotates CCW to find a tool, once it has a tool it will rotate forward CW a small amount to lock
    my thought is this, if I use 2 bipolar hall sensors and a set of magnets at every tool slot, the exact tool location is always known. Im not sure if Mach3 can read +5V, 0V, -5V, im still investigating that, but if it does I can use 2 inputs in the Mach3 to show turret position. Then drive the dc motor using the z axis and encoder input to rotate to the correct position, advance slightly then back in with a current sensor to stop and switch it to a hold current. I think with this set up I wont need the turret board. If Mach3 cant read -5V, then I can use an intermediate board to read the hall output and then I would need 3 pins which would be +5vdc or 0 on the mach to tell it position. But I think this will work well and be simpler. Im not a mach3 programmer by any means if someone can help with that. I will have to get the tool changer apart to see where to put the magnets but I think this will work pretty well, I know it already has optical sensor in the turret so there should be plenty of room.

  12. #12
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    I already have the motor, is there something off the shelf I can add or do I need to design a custom shaft ground? I saw this in another Emco120 retrofit build and didnt know what it was.

  13. #13
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by CincyTJ View Post
    I already have the motor, is there something off the shelf I can add or do I need to design a custom shaft ground? I saw this in another Emco120 retrofit build and didnt know what it was.
    It's not an Emco thing, it is what should be done for any VFD driven AC motor, yes Baldor have them fitted to some of these motors, like the one you saw, they are easy to make, can be a lot less complicated than that one was, Baldor mounts it inside the Housing, very simple, just a single Brush holder, I have tried to find someone at Baldor to get some of them, but no luck yet
    Mactec54

  14. #14
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    sounds good, Ill design something as part of the initial buildup, thanx, Im an ME so Im learning a lot. looks like there are commercial parts avaialble. a quick search found these, I would make a shaft sleeve and a mounting bracket and then use something like this, does that sound like it would be sufficient?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails brush holder.JPG   brush.JPG  

  15. #15
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by CincyTJ View Post
    sounds good, Ill design something as part of the initial buildup, thanx, Im an ME so Im learning a lot. looks like there are commercial parts avaialble. a quick search found these, I would make a shaft sleeve and a mounting bracket and then use something like this, does that sound like it would be sufficient?
    You need the Brush holder like this, that has a built in spring that pushes on the back of the Brush, you are on the right track, some have the spring and some do not, there is room to mount them inside the motor housing
    Mactec54

  16. #16
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    Emcotronic TM02 control and the Emco transformer are listed on Ebay

    control 111955514667
    transformer 111955523257

  17. #17
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    picture of the DC motor with the back cover removed. this thing is big, the housing on the left side is a squirrel cage fan
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMAG3450.jpg  

  18. #18
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    started the dis-assembly in earnest tonight. pulled off the side covers and separated all of the cables and cut off the old plugs. I also pulled the cover off the tool changer to see whats up with that. looks like the ring for the sensors is damaged. If anyone has a picture of that ring could you please post it? I am guessing it will have 2-3 slots so that each tool position is identified discretely with 4 sets of on/off counters. I think I can duplicate this logic in mach3 and drive the toolchanger directly from mach3 using the z-axis output.

    found pics of the ring and it is correct. so upon reflection it doesnt need 3 slots, one long slot that is over 90 degrees does the same thing. it will give alternating sets of sensor readings for 1 then 2 sensors as it indexes around giving 8 distinct combinations of sensors on/off. 1,1&2,2,2&3,3,3&4,4,4&1. just seems like they would have done a cleaner job of cutting the ring, it looks like it has been broken off.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMAG3458.jpg   IMAG3459.jpg   IMAG3460.jpg   IMAG3461.jpg  

    IMAG3462.jpg  

  19. #19
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    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    here are some more pictures of the teardown. motor is removed, pulley came off motor very nice, I had soaked it over night with pb blaster. I now have all of the covers off but one. the last one wraps around the spindle tightly and I am not sure about the 3 bolts in the side of the spindle. Can anyone tell me what these are for and if it is OK to remove them? then I can clear in earnest. the ways look clean, there is some surface rust in non critical areas and the whole thing has a layer of oily dirt and chips.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMAG3464.jpg   IMAG3465.jpg   IMAG3468.jpg   IMAG3469.jpg  

    IMAG3470.jpg  

  20. #20

    Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit

    The one on top holds a tool eye. The ones on the bottom, are probably for securing a lever for an optional manually actuated collet chuck. These can be removed, but will expose the inside of the spindle, so should be cleaned.

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