540,760 active members*
7,236 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Tormach Personal CNC Mill > Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...
Page 1 of 2 12
Results 1 to 20 of 25
  1. #1
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    30

    Thumbs up Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    I finally set up my tormach last week. but it seems it cant rapid up on the Z axis.

    Its brand new out of the box, it has the auto oiler set up, when I jog upwards the stepper motor stalls and looses steps.

    I turned the jog speed down to %50 with the manual override, but I ran my first program got right to the end and it tried to rapid up to clearence hight then down to feed high for the last little section but it lost about 15mm in steps, boom. rammed the tool straight into the job my new z 0 .. was about -13/-15 ..
    (please tell me I didnt just fork out this much for a friction welder :idea

    Look in to the manual and checked over all the trouble shooting.. checked the coupling atop of the ball screw. it was still nice and tight. so i had a look at the movement while it stalls. and sure enough its the stepper that is stalling. now in the book it says to check the gibs but are these not set at the factory?? the machine only has about 1 hour run time on it. !

    can it be the motor at fault? a driver? the controller? (Its the tormach one) Anyone one else had the problem?

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    184

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    Quote Originally Posted by JimsMachining View Post
    I finally set up my tormach last week. but it seems it cant rapid up on the Z axis.

    Its brand new out of the box, it has the auto oiler set up, when I jog upwards the stepper motor stalls and looses steps.

    I turned the jog speed down to %50 with the manual override, but I ran my first program got right to the end and it tried to rapid up to clearence hight then down to feed high for the last little section but it lost about 15mm in steps, boom. rammed the tool straight into the job my new z 0 .. was about -13/-15 ..
    (please tell me I didnt just fork out this much for a friction welder :idea

    Look in to the manual and checked over all the trouble shooting.. checked the coupling atop of the ball screw. it was still nice and tight. so i had a look at the movement while it stalls. and sure enough its the stepper that is stalling. now in the book it says to check the gibs but are these not set at the factory?? the machine only has about 1 hour run time on it. !

    can it be the motor at fault? a driver? the controller? (Its the tormach one) Anyone one else had the problem?

    Thanks in advance
    I've been in your shoes recently and It's frustrating ..... pickup the phone and call Tormach.

    The guys there are great and they really have the patience when dealing with beginners like me.

    Michael

  3. #3
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1885
    Quote Originally Posted by JimsMachining View Post
    I finally set up my tormach last week. but it seems it cant rapid up on the Z axis.

    Its brand new out of the box, it has the auto oiler set up, when I jog upwards the stepper motor stalls and looses steps.

    I turned the jog speed down to %50 with the manual override, but I ran my first program got right to the end and it tried to rapid up to clearence hight then down to feed high for the last little section but it lost about 15mm in steps, boom. rammed the tool straight into the job my new z 0 .. was about -13/-15 ..
    (please tell me I didnt just fork out this much for a friction welder :idea

    Look in to the manual and checked over all the trouble shooting.. checked the coupling atop of the ball screw. it was still nice and tight. so i had a look at the movement while it stalls. and sure enough its the stepper that is stalling. now in the book it says to check the gibs but are these not set at the factory?? the machine only has about 1 hour run time on it. !

    can it be the motor at fault? a driver? the controller? (Its the tormach one) Anyone one else had the problem?

    Thanks in advance
    Do you have the ATC on your machine? If you do I probably can't help you, but if you don't I can. I don't have the ATC on my machine. I thought is was $4200.00 I didn't need to spend.

    I'm on vacation till tomorrow but if you'd like to give me a call Saturday afternoon when I'm standing in front of the machine I can probably help you.

    My phone is 714-420/2453.

  4. #4
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    237

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    Man, it mega sucks that such a new piece of equipment is not working as it should. Unfortunately, it happens. Here is what I would do after screaming into the heavens for a little bit...

    1. Any chance that the stepper drivers had their DIP switch configuration moved during shipping? Yes, I know this is about 110% unlikely but considering it is not working as it should I would check it. On Series II machines, all stepper drivers have the exact same DIP switch configuration. I imagine the same applies for Series III, but I admit this is just a guess.

    2. I wouldn't mess with the gibs yet. If Tormach tells you to lose them, then go ahead. Otherwise, I would leave this test more towards the end. The gibs will make stuff tighter, that's for sure, but as to loose that many steps, I am not certain. It would need to be super tight! You are correct in assuming that they were tuned in the factory, but what are the odds that something happened during shipping? Everything is possible, I am afraid.

    3. Check that the Z axis stepper driver cabling. Maybe one of the three wires is lose/broken. I haven't done much with 3 phase steppers and I am under the impression that a lose wire would cause the motor to hum so badly you would not be asking the question as a loss of steps matter. But like I said, I would check that as well.

    4. I don't think it is a defective motor (motors are not that easy to kill), but a defective driver is usually much more likely. If you are desperate, you could switch the drive and see if the problem follows the drive or the motor. If it follows the drive, then you know what the root cause is right there. If it stays in the axis, then it could be the motor, too much loading, the gibs, something bent, etc.

    5. Are you using PP or MACH3? If MACH3, is this a Tormach controller or your own PC? If it is your own PC, then be aware that MACH3 does not play well with every single PC out there. This is yet another area where you can run a gazillion tests. Do note with MACH3 it is highly recommended that you do not have an USB hub, no wireless peripherals and in some cases no network. Definitely do not browse the web while running a part, nor access the PC remotely. The only app on the computer should be the controlling SW.

    6. Is your keyboard wired or wireless? I had an issue once with a wireless keyboard. My Y axis would start moving out of nowhere. It was the keyboard. I know because as soon as I switch off the KB, the problem would go away.

    7. Make sure your KB is clean. This is another item which has killed me every now and then. If coolant fell through the keys, it is possible there is an intermittent short. Quite the pesky annoyance to troubleshoot...

    8. Do you have a jog shuttle (e.g. pendant)? Any chance that chips have fallen under the buttons? Yet another ghost which haunts all of us every now and then.

    Some of these items would apply much more once you have used the machine for a long while (i.e. it takes a while to put that many chips or coolant on our keyboards / jog wheel). Yet it is always good to keep them in mind. I am certain there are a few other issues other users will report. These machines are great and incredibly reliable, but there are a few combinations which are just not going to fly. Once you learn to remove them from your particular equation, you should be able to operate for a very long period of time without hiccups.

    If after all of this test you still find that there is something wrong, Tormach will go through hoops to get your machine fixed. They are probably one of the best customer service teams we all deal with on a regular basis. Especially when you just bought half a car ;-)
    I document my CNC Experience at CNC Dude's Youtube channel. Check it out!

  5. #5
    Registered
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1026

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    Check the Z axis brake. Mine failed after a year and caused a similar problem. There's a metal tab on top of the z axis motor that should flip back from about 3 o clock to 2 when you power up the machine. If it doesn't go, try pushing it back manually, and see how it performs. At lower speeds the motor has enough torque to overpower the brake, but not at rapid speed. Tormach sent me a replacement motor without any fuss, I'm sure they'll take care of you.

  6. #6
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2049

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    Ditto, tormach will help you with the problem.
    Just another guess and my experience with axis lockup! In the past I had a problem with any or all 3 axis locking up at times. Tormach advised me to check or adjust gibs and or reinstall mach with licensed install disk...........
    Neither of these were the problem and I figured out I was shutting down machine with e-stop button on front panel when I should have also been turning off the master power switch on side of cabinet. Somehow my best guess was a transient state was left in the control boards or cables or controller "sometimes" causing a problem when I went to use machine next time. Now that I turn power off to machine and controller completely between uses I have 0.00 problems with this.
    Something to consider on day to day use and it fixed a transient problem that scared the s**t out of me first time it happened. "wham bang slam"
    md

  7. #7
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    30

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    Quote Originally Posted by CNC-Dude View Post
    Man, it mega sucks that such a new piece of equipment is not working as it should. Unfortunately, it happens. Here is what I would do after screaming into the heavens for a little bit...

    1. Any chance that the stepper drivers had their DIP switch configuration moved during shipping? Yes, I know this is about 110% unlikely but considering it is not working as it should I would check it. On Series II machines, all stepper drivers have the exact same DIP switch configuration. I imagine the same applies for Series III, but I admit this is just a guess.

    2. I wouldn't mess with the gibs yet. If Tormach tells you to lose them, then go ahead. Otherwise, I would leave this test more towards the end. The gibs will make stuff tighter, that's for sure, but as to loose that many steps, I am not certain. It would need to be super tight! You are correct in assuming that they were tuned in the factory, but what are the odds that something happened during shipping? Everything is possible, I am afraid.

    3. Check that the Z axis stepper driver cabling. Maybe one of the three wires is lose/broken. I haven't done much with 3 phase steppers and I am under the impression that a lose wire would cause the motor to hum so badly you would not be asking the question as a loss of steps matter. But like I said, I would check that as well.

    4. I don't think it is a defective motor (motors are not that easy to kill), but a defective driver is usually much more likely. If you are desperate, you could switch the drive and see if the problem follows the drive or the motor. If it follows the drive, then you know what the root cause is right there. If it stays in the axis, then it could be the motor, too much loading, the gibs, something bent, etc.

    5. Are you using PP or MACH3? If MACH3, is this a Tormach controller or your own PC? If it is your own PC, then be aware that MACH3 does not play well with every single PC out there. This is yet another area where you can run a gazillion tests. Do note with MACH3 it is highly recommended that you do not have an USB hub, no wireless peripherals and in some cases no network. Definitely do not browse the web while running a part, nor access the PC remotely. The only app on the computer should be the controlling SW.

    6. Is your keyboard wired or wireless? I had an issue once with a wireless keyboard. My Y axis would start moving out of nowhere. It was the keyboard. I know because as soon as I switch off the KB, the problem would go away.

    7. Make sure your KB is clean. This is another item which has killed me every now and then. If coolant fell through the keys, it is possible there is an intermittent short. Quite the pesky annoyance to troubleshoot...

    8. Do you have a jog shuttle (e.g. pendant)? Any chance that chips have fallen under the buttons? Yet another ghost which haunts all of us every now and then.

    Some of these items would apply much more once you have used the machine for a long while (i.e. it takes a while to put that many chips or coolant on our keyboards / jog wheel). Yet it is always good to keep them in mind. I am certain there are a few other issues other users will report. These machines are great and incredibly reliable, but there are a few combinations which are just not going to fly. Once you learn to remove them from your particular equation, you should be able to operate for a very long period of time without hiccups.

    If after all of this test you still find that there is something wrong, Tormach will go through hoops to get your machine fixed. They are probably one of the best customer service teams we all deal with on a regular basis. Especially when you just bought half a car ;-)
    Thank you all for replies!.

    1. I Will look in to this.

    2. It got shipped to the UK so transit might have been as issue but i would say they would get loose in transit not tighter?

    3. The cables have all been checked

    4. I'm not going to fiddle with the motor/driver until tormach get back to me

    5. I've got the tormach controller with mach3, it came with the built in pci card for path pilot so that is on its way too

    6. KB is all fully wired and and the mouse.

    7/8 . both spanking new ones, I can use the shuttle to rapid Z up. if turn the jog all the way it will also stall.

    Thanks

  8. #8
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    529

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    One simple check I don't see mentioned.... Are you getting oil to your Z axis? If my machine sits unused for a time it takes several cycles of the manual oiler to get oil flow to the Z axis.

    Robert

  9. #9
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1608

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    One thing to check is that both Z gib screws are snug otherwilse the gib will tighten up in one direction.

    bob

  10. #10
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    30

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    Quote Originally Posted by rowbare View Post
    One thing to check is that both Z gib screws are snug otherwilse the gib will tighten up in one direction.

    bob
    Still no word back from tormach yet. so i may look in to this. Cheers

  11. #11
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    30

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    Quote Originally Posted by RTP_Burnsville View Post
    One simple check I don't see mentioned.... Are you getting oil to your Z axis? If my machine sits unused for a time it takes several cycles of the manual oiler to get oil flow to the Z axis.

    Robert
    the ways are still ice anddamp. and the feeder tube atop of the machine still had pressure when i took it off. (oops) but i pooped it back on and refed the oil tubes

  12. #12
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    30

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    the ways are still nice and damp. and the feeder tube atop of the machine still had pressure when i took it off. (oops) but i pooped it back on and refed the oil tubes

    I have adjusted the gib today. still no joy. I did a little video too.

    https://youtu.be/4khdOXRRAT0

  13. #13
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2512

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    Have you tried with the gib very loose or even removed. If you try this and still lose steps them my guess would be a fault in the electrics/electronics for the z axis motor. So first check that all the electrical connections related the z axis are good, especially including the driver. If that doesn't fix it then a normal investigation would involve changing parts with one of the other axis (particularly the motor and the driver), in order to isolate the fault, although, due to the warranty, you may not want to do this unless Tormach tell you to.

    Phil

  14. #14
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    665

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    Hmm. Puzzling.. like all Chinese stuff, I found I pretty much had to check every single nut, bolt and set screw. Some were too tight, some too loose, etc.. my z stops don't work after all that, but that's pretty minor - fix that another day. Once you get it sorted, its a pretty decent little machine.

  15. #15
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    30

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    Turns out it was the shaft/bearing retaining nut.. found it by pot luck.

    https://youtu.be/rPBkLBd9Hto

  16. #16
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1458

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    good news! Glad you were able to figure it out.

    Just a note (as I am sure you probably already know), those nuts adjust the bearing pre-load on the z-axis ballscrew. If they are too loose, you will get excessive play (backlash) in the z-axis travel. Too tight, and you will wear things out (and apparently bind the motion of the z-axis stepper, as you saw on your machine).
    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3, Grizzly G0709 lathe, Clausing 8520 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.

  17. #17
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    237

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    All right! Glad you solve the problem and the machine is, as you say, "it f'ng works!"

    I just watched both videos and do want to point out that on the first I heard an intriguing chimming sound (or high pitch squealing) which I have never heard on either of my machines. When I heard that sound I almost wondered if the ways had been oiled. I think somebody mentioned the oiling of the Z ways as well.

    Clearly your problem has to do with a load the steppers can't handle at higher speeds. Since the loading is a combination of items, you were able to find a way to decrease the load and get the machine to work. As tmarks11 mentions, if there is slop on the pre load bearings, then you will get more backlash on Z. You measured 1.5 thousands and that is most likely fine. Just keep your eyes open because if the problem was something else then it is still there. But hopefully that was it and you are ready to rock!
    I document my CNC Experience at CNC Dude's Youtube channel. Check it out!

  18. #18
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    340

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    Jim,
    Well done. But you didn't find it by pot luck. You found it by being thorough in your searching for a possible cause. So you deserve to be f'ing pleased.

    By the way, I'm sure you have done this but you didn't say.... you bent one of the washer tabs down to lock the nut.

    It is a great machine, but it will have little issues from time to time. I am sure you will be able to solve them.
    Bevin

  19. #19
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    30

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    Quote Originally Posted by bevinp View Post
    Jim,
    Well done. But you didn't find it by pot luck. You found it by being thorough in your searching for a possible cause. So you deserve to be f'ing pleased.

    By the way, I'm sure you have done this but you didn't say.... you bent one of the washer tabs down to lock the nut.

    It is a great machine, but it will have little issues from time to time. I am sure you will be able to solve them.
    Bevin
    I didn't at first just to see what happens as it was not locked down in the first place, surely enought once i raped up and down 5 or 6 times the nut tighted up alot.
    so one final adjustment and a locking tab later.. boom poped 3 hours run time on it with no issues what so ever. cheers for the input peeps

  20. #20

    Re: Finally got my Tormach set up!.. BUT...

    Good to hear it's working for you. BTW I have seen brand new Haas, Mori's and Mazak's not work out of the box. Deal there is wait two weeks for a Tech, then several more weeks to get parts and then more time to get the Tech back. The Tormach machine design makes it easy to troubleshoot if you ever have issues. I have been running mine for years and couldn't be building my products without getting a PCNC.
    RAD. Yes those are my initials. Idea, design, build, use. It never ends.
    PCNC1100 Series II, w/S3 upgrade, PDB, ATC & 4th's, PCNC1100 Series II, 4th

Page 1 of 2 12

Similar Threads

  1. Tormach 1100 S3 using Tormach 1.5" face mill....
    By dneisler in forum Tormach Personal CNC Mill
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 05-06-2015, 04:50 AM
  2. Finally!
    By Spinnetti in forum Tormach Personal CNC Mill
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-31-2012, 01:35 AM
  3. Finally a CNC for me
    By sparky957 in forum Canadian Club House
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-22-2010, 12:36 AM
  4. WELL I Finally did it.
    By jdemille in forum Benchtop Machines
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 04-29-2009, 12:47 AM
  5. PCB. finally, oh finally
    By MrWild in forum General CNC Machine Related Electronics
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-14-2005, 02:37 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •