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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Tormach Personal CNC Mill > Fixtures and using a toolsetter and probe
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  1. #1
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    Fixtures and using a toolsetter and probe

    Hi Folks.

    Here is a video on making an 8 part fixture and going through using a mechanical toolsetter and probe.

    Please post any related information you have in this thread.

    Cheers Cliff

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-UfpiBb1xc&t=1327s

  2. #2
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    Re: Fixtures and using a toolsetter and probe

    This is the tool setter that I use. Made by Edge technologies. There are two versions I recommend the pro model with the bigger contact area. What is nice is that is has a fixed gauge length 0f 4". I use the gauge to set the length of cutting tools. Then you can use a gauge block or a 2-4-6 block to set the height of your probe. This unit has been accurate and useful. Far easier and quicker than my old method of setting tools using a 1-2-3 block.

  3. #3
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    Re: Fixtures and using a toolsetter and probe

    The drawback with tool setters on the mill table is that they take up space, as well as make for possible crash sites!
    One thing that TTS actually has over most CAT-style holders, is that there exists a reference plane on the tool holder.
    Getting the precision flat stone with the 3/4" hole and a height gage, you can easily measure each of your tools and enter them into the tool table.
    And, because of the ground flat on the tool holder, bearing against the spindle nose, this is very repeatable.
    CAT-style tapers (which includes BT-20/30) have a reference taper, but not a well-defined contact plane, so they end up benefitting more from an on-bed tool setter.

    My two cents :-)

  4. #4
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    Re: Fixtures and using a toolsetter and probe

    Quote Originally Posted by upnorth View Post
    This is the tool setter that I use. Made by Edge technologies. There are two versions I recommend the pro model with the bigger contact area. What is nice is that is has a fixed gauge length 0f 4". I use the gauge to set the length of cutting tools. Then you can use a gauge block or a 2-4-6 block to set the height of your probe. This unit has been accurate and useful. Far easier and quicker than my old method of setting tools using a 1-2-3 block.
    Hi upnorth - It looks like the anvil is part of the main plunger - which would be much more accurate. So when you say it has a fixed 4" length. Can you explain this more. Is 4" the the needle zero position and adjustable to that, or 4" to the top of the anodized surface ?

    Also is the top surface of the anvil accurately level and can this be adjusted?

    Cheers Cliff

  5. #5
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    Re: Fixtures and using a toolsetter and probe

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatte View Post
    The drawback with tool setters on the mill table is that they take up space, as well as make for possible crash sites!
    One thing that TTS actually has over most CAT-style holders, is that there exists a reference plane on the tool holder.
    Getting the precision flat stone with the 3/4" hole and a height gage, you can easily measure each of your tools and enter them into the tool table.
    And, because of the ground flat on the tool holder, bearing against the spindle nose, this is very repeatable.
    CAT-style tapers (which includes BT-20/30) have a reference taper, but not a well-defined contact plane, so they end up benefitting more from an on-bed tool setter.

    My two cents :-)
    Thanks for your two cents! I know in the theory your points are correct. I have been using your method for years, but I don't find it highly accurate.
    I am making a video on the reasons why, and they seem to be mainly: The spindle compresses under drawbar tension, The TTS flange flexes also under draw bar compression, (easy to measure these with a dial indicator) and off machine measuring with a digital height gauge usually get small errors.
    I agree your points are a key advantage of TTS, and my concerns somewhat undermine this.
    Cheers Cliff

  6. #6
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    Re: Fixtures and using a toolsetter and probe

    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    Hi upnorth - It looks like the anvil is part of the main plunger - which would be much more accurate. So when you say it has a fixed 4" length. Can you explain this more. Is 4" the the needle zero position and adjustable to that, or 4" to the top of the anodized surface ?

    Also is the top surface of the anvil accurately level and can this be adjusted?

    Cheers Cliff
    Hi Cliff:

    First off thanks for the videos that you make.

    By a 4" length I mean when you move a tool down until the dial reads zero the tip of the tool is exactly 4" from the bottom of the gauge (or 4" above the reference surface it's sitting on). I use a master tool that is a long drill bit and all my tools are referenced to this in the control. Whenever I set up new tools I use the reference tool and then set that length as the point from which to measure all the following tools. I set the new tool to read zero on the dial and then store the offset in the control tool table. I'm not sure if I am explaining this well or not.

    The needle position can be adjusted (calibrated) but I have never needed to. To verify the 4" setting I check it with a 2-4-6 block and a 1-2-3 block. I set the first block on its side so 4" is vertical. Then I put the 1-2-3 block on top in an L shape and slide the gauge under it to verify it's reading correctly.

    I have not checked the top of the anvil to see if it is accurately level. When switching from one end mill to another there is no sign of a step that would indicate a variation in Z heights. With incremental jogging it's very easy to match tool heights when setting them with this tool. Easily within the width of the painted line on the dial indicator.

  7. #7
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    Re: Fixtures and using a toolsetter and probe

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatte View Post
    One thing that TTS actually has over most CAT-style holders, is that there exists a reference plane on the tool holder.
    Getting the precision flat stone with the 3/4" hole and a height gage, you can easily measure each of your tools and enter them into the tool table.
    And, because of the ground flat on the tool holder, bearing against the spindle nose, this is very repeatable.
    CAT-style tapers (which includes BT-20/30) have a reference taper, but not a well-defined contact plane, so they end up benefitting more from an on-bed tool setter.
    Agreed. Coming from an elderly 1100 with TTS to a BT30 MX I had to rework my toolsetting method and I still don't like it as much as off-line measuring TTS tools. Partly that's because I use a Haimer as the master tool and that doesn't play well with any toolsetter that has a spring-loaded table..

  8. #8
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    Re: Fixtures and using a toolsetter and probe

    Quote Originally Posted by shred View Post
    Agreed. Coming from an elderly 1100 with TTS to a BT30 MX I had to rework my toolsetting method and I still don't like it as much as off-line measuring TTS tools. Partly that's because I use a Haimer as the master tool and that doesn't play well with any toolsetter that has a spring-loaded table..
    That is why I like the one from Edge technologies. You set up your Z height with a the tool setter. Then when you want to measure any tool with a movable plunger like an electronic probe or a Haimer you swap out the Z height setter for a 2-4-6 (or anything 4" thick) and indicate to zero. Perfect matching Z heights easily.

  9. #9
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    Re: Fixtures and using a toolsetter and probe

    Quote Originally Posted by upnorth View Post
    That is why I like the one from Edge technologies. You set up your Z height with a the tool setter. Then when you want to measure any tool with a movable plunger like an electronic probe or a Haimer you swap out the Z height setter for a 2-4-6 (or anything 4" thick) and indicate to zero. Perfect matching Z heights easily.
    I zero off a surface with the Haimer, then install the setter on that and tell PP how tall it is, then it sets tools to that. There's always the possibility of introducing error with a chip or whatever when swapping things, but its manageable.. What I miss is being able to measure up tools offline and stick them in a rack, then swap them in when the program calls for them. Putting each one in the spindle to measure them, then take them back out to do the next one is a bit more tedious and requires everything to be booted up-- PP, the machine & ATC, air pressure, etc,

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