[a_gunslinger]

Greetings all. My son just graduated from a local vocational school (Live Oaks, Cincinnati OH) where he graduated with honors from CNC Advanced Machining. His teacher told me he was a natural who ended up teaching and mentoring his fellow classmates. Now at 18, facing the real world, he is having trouble getting that first job - and that realization that it getting a job wasn't the guarantee he thought. Believe he is stuck in that starting-off zone where you want a job, apply, but you have no experience in the field yet so not hired.

Figured this amazing group might have some good advice or suggestions.

Thanks in advance.

[metalmayhem]

It's going to start with how you local job market is .
Best thing for him to do is knock on doors and ask if they are hiring , if nothing presents itself then repeat the exact same routine every few weeks until something comes up . The more they see his face the more of an impression he will make . Persistence will show how bad he wants to be machining and not just wanting to work at any sort of job . Filling applications online have less clout than someone walking through a company door

Most shops need deburring / polishing guys and he can offer to do that just to get his foot in the door . I excelled at machining while in high school and while I took a millwright coarse but my first job in a machine shop started in a deburring department and I quickly moved into the machining side .

Also from my own experience - Due to a terrible economy back in the day I had to move to the other side of the country to find any decent work . He may have to look at relocating in order to pursue his dream

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
it seems a lost skill but when I was a lad and wanted work I went and knocked on every door and spoke to every boss. Even if they had nothing for me I'd go back a few weeks later, and again, and again.
Of course when they had a job to suit a youngster come up, they'd remember that I'd been pestering them for weeks or months, and so I got the job. I did that, as did many of my friends, but it seems
that youngsters today have forgone that sort of drive.

One of the challenges your son faces, is not his lack of skill, but his lack of experience...and that is not easy to get. It requires perseverance to get that job, and face many rejections, often repeated rejections
from the same company.....but encourage him to keep at it. It will be an attitude that takes him anywhere. Once he has a job......any job.....he has to work well at it, whether its in a workshop or painting
or sweeping the floors. There is one thing that secures you a job when all else fails....and that is a phone call to a previous boss and be told, 'yeah, bloody good keen lad......I'd hire him again'
Presumably you need a degree in brain surgery if you want to be a brain surgeon....but many other jobs you get just by being keen and able, skills you pick up, but attitude is everything and can't really be taught.

Tell your son to keep on knocking on doors, getting interviews, even if he gets rejected dozens or hundreds of times.....it hurts and is depressing, but you have to keep at it. Tough life lesson at eighteen, and does not seem any
easier now that I am in my 60's!.

Craig

[adamfromUK]

Breaking into the CNC machining field can indeed be challenging at first. From my journey, leveraging any form of practical experience, such as projects or volunteer work, can be really beneficial.

[victorofga]

for my personality , for me was simpler to start my own journey

its not looking easy, but saves on headaches
for a machinist either way need a job with large series, or extremely complicated works to get steady income


simply graduating from a school doesnt mean he can successfully stand up in a shop from first days

he might takes any job to start to working
on the end you going to support your son for a few years from now

so for an option he might find simple parts to making in a garageshop on his own

ezample i know someone started bussines making simple wood wedges for doorstops
10-20 cent each, but he could sell 20K of them monthly

in his class at least 20 finished and no one knows how many machinist looking for job beyond him and his classmates
so just follow american way, if you dont get employed then make your own job

[Mecanix]

If he is a natural as claimed you should invest in his special skillset and promote self-employment/entrepreneurship rather than selling to an employer.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
gifted is one thing, experienced is another.

To have a reasonable shot at making your own business requires more than just a unique talent.

Whats the bet as an eighteen year old that he still thinks 'money grows on trees'. No doubt OP, this lads father, can attest to that!

The other thing that youngsters, and not just youngsters but oldies as well, forget, is that while you may enjoy and even excel at 'A' you in fact also have to be good at 'B' and 'C' and 'D'....all of which
you hate.

Amongst the things that a youngster learns as an employee is how to be a part of a team and be able to contribute to a business. There is a huge emotional sobering and growing to be done when you, even
as a talented youngster, are surrounded by skilled tradesman, journeymen and even master craftsman. Do you not remember being sent to the auto parts shop for a can of 'compression powder' or sent to
the chandlers for some 'green starboard lamp oil'? Jokes aside, the learning that comes at the hands of older and vastly more experienced workers is a lesson not to be missed.

I would not discount starting your own business, but I think there is huge value in learning from your elders.......and not, even specifically not, your father!

Craig

[adamfromUK]

Agree with these youngsters' preferences, nowadays you have to be experienced in different fields to make the money you want, so I would put more accent on some courses, trainings, and internships in different areas. With a large-scale knowledge pack, getting the desired jobs and salaries will be easier.

Also, I'd like to add that networking is also key. Encourage him to connect with professionals in the field and attend local industry meetups. Sometimes, opportunities come from the most unexpected places.

Regarding salary expectations and career progression, it's good to have realistic expectations. Check out these stats of CNC estimated yearly salary. They can provide a ballpark figure of what he might expect to earn in different stages of his CNC career.

[metalmayhem]

the key thing is to listen and learn from professionals who have their feet on the shop floor . Education and all is great to have but it's not the be all end all . Every year I'd see fresh grads come onto the shop floor who would argue " that's not the way I was taught to do it " . Some guys took up what we were teaching them and did well , while the other educated guys found themselves out the door . Every shop has it's own way of getting things done and even the most seasoned guys need to adapt when walking through a new door . There is way too much involved in manufacturing and we will never know it all . Only a fool will think he does .

The challenge for a new guy is finding the right shop to grow in . I've worked with guys who were very protective about their trade secrets , and , there were lots of guys who would walk another guy through the processes . One is secure in his position in the company , the other isn't . I've nearly found myself in fights with guys who thought they deserved positions that I walked through the door into . Some shops are better than others in this case .
Generally a production shop is ideal to start learning in because it is fast paced and there is a lot to absorb . Even if the job is a low payer it is still a paid education . Soak it all in and move on

Starting a business always looks good on paper but the majority fail . It's one thing to make a product , but the demand has to be there for the right product . A shop owner has to become a manufacturer , sales person , product support , and sometimes a complaints department . It takes investment and a person has to be able to ride the waves because there are high times and low times . I deal directly to businesses every day and I'd say 95% of them have come and gone in a very short period of time .
How many times have guys come to the forums asking if a $300 router will cut them automotive parts or whatever out of metal . A business needs to be well thought out to be successful

[Mecanix]

If the kid aims at an employee/employer 9~5 slave endeavor he might as well just go work for eg. an Amazon Fulfillment Center at double the minimum and his job-shop salary.

Success is all in the personality, creativity and drive to success. If all 3 are present (and 'making' is what he wants to do) I still recommend him to find his niche, start small into that, and grow as he goes.

I've seen teens succeed making pocket knives while they were still in their puberty. For instance. Many other case study to list, endless in fact...

[metalmayhem]

If the kid aims at an employee/employer 9~5 slave endeavor he might as well just go work for eg. an Amazon Fulfillment Center at double the minimum and his job-shop salary.

Success is all in the personality, creativity and drive to success

.

are you suggesting a kid with zero experience should expect top dollar . I'm merely suggesting a stepping stone . I went from working at high wages in construction to making peanuts for a short while so I could prove my worth in the first shop I was able to get into . It was a small price to pay . At the end of the day it doesn't matter what the occupation or how much a guy makes , working for someone else is a slave's endeavour . Punch in punch out same time every day , hoping that the next day is the same vs getting the dreaded pink slips hitting the floor

Success is certainly about personality , creativity and drive but that means nothing if no one wants the product . I'm not shooting down the possibility of a business venture but the reality is there is an initial cost attached to it and most fail . I've been running a successful business for over 10 years and it's not always roses . It took a lot of work and sacrifice to get where I am while working a full time job for the first 4 years , and unlike a kid fresh out of school I had a lot of equity to pursue it

[Mecanix]

Dad seems to be all-in the success of his son judging from the OP/post. Something tells me he'd do and be a great investor

Not suggesting top dollars, ofc not, but rather niche-up first, start small and grow from there. Mind you nothing stops him from acquiring a "day-job" while setting-up shop and gaining experience in the meantime.

Simply can't recommend a "career as an employee" into a job-shop and/or eng dept as a third level machinist. There's China for that sort of stuff...

[metalmayhem]

I'm speaking only from my experience and a lot of friends who I grew up with in this industry . We all started at the bottom together and all are successfully running our own shops , or , are at the top of the food chain while working in other shops .
Theres an old saying hard work pays off , and a guy can super succeed anyone with the old school mentality in a day and age where that drive is lacking .
If there was a lot of job opportunity where the op lives then he wouldn't be here asking how his grandson can get his foot into a shop

Career as a choice isn't necessarily a bad thing , well seasoned guys earn good money , work 40hrs , get paid every 2 weeks . Randomly starting and running a business leads to a whole lot of guess work and finger crossing . I don't knock it and I'm a risk taker but it's not for everyone . Mortgage , car , boat etc payments don't wait for anyone , so security is a nice thing for most

The China for that sort of stuff ......... is a large reason why manufacturing in north america got into the state it did . I remember the days when guys in these forums and out of them stated they'd never do anything other than aluminum on their machines because steel is too hard on them . Steel jobs went to china because they'd do it , all the aluminum eventually did to . A lot of those guys complained about the loss of work and disappeared into the dust except it was their own fault . We shouldn't have anything being made in China

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
in case you hadn't noticed manufacturing in China is in a death spiral. All sorts of companies are pulling out, China has become hostile to Western businesses.
That work is going to places like Vietnam and India when its not being 'bought home'.

I would say that its a good time for a person to be in the manufacturing trade, those skills are going to be sought after.

I would argue that once a youngster has five, eight or ten years solid work experience under his belt, then he would be well placed to undertake some sort of business own his own account.
Who knows, by then he may be married, and that changes the calculus bigtime!

Craig

[Mecanix]

Politics aside; I'm not exactly subscribed to the west's group-suicide cult trademark and therefore outsource, and will increase outsourcing to our Chinese partners as much as I possibly can, so to ensure that our company remains competitive. We would have been dead a long time ago if solely relying on the domestic labor and its apocalyptic overheads. No thank you very much.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
the cost of labour in China is skyrocketing. China is no longer the cheap place to do business it once was. Sure it still has that huge industrial infrastructure built out, and for that to be replicated
in other places around the world is not going to happen overnight, but it will.

Its time for the rest of the world to get smart and competitive. China has shot themselves in the foot, both feet in fact. By the time they work out that all their nationalistic BS is scaring Western businesses
and Western custom away China will be on its knees. Time to get busy and take advantage of their stupidity.

Craig

[metalmayhem]

Hi,
in case you hadn't noticed manufacturing in China is in a death spiral. All sorts of companies are pulling out, China has become hostile to Western businesses.
That work is going to places like Vietnam and India when its not being 'bought home'.

I would say that its a good time for a person to be in the manufacturing trade, those skills are going to be sought after.

I would argue that once a youngster has five, eight or ten years solid work experience under his belt, then he would be well placed to undertake some sort of business own his own account.
Who knows, by then he may be married, and that changes the calculus bigtime!

Craig

I'd call it more of a hiccup than a death spiral . If you consider their level of manufacturing and export they don't really need the outside work anymore . They needed it at one point but they are beyond that now . The isles in most stores are covered with products made in china
I will give them credit for one thing , they took being exploited for their low labour costs and ran with it vs other countries that stayed poor the whole time .

[Mecanix]

No offence Joe, but all that sounds much like brainwashing psyop coming out from the typical CNN jukebox and MSM bs (aka "West's Group-Suicide Cult"). Out of experience we've been doing business with several Chinese partners for the last 22 years (humble 10mil annual revenue). None are hostile to us and or others that we know well and who deals with them on a regular basis. On the contrary in fact (if compared to several western legal-gaga suppliers and other wannabes we also have to deal with, unfortunately). Quotes are based on Int'l market price (commodities/metals), so is the labor; all based on the domestic Labor Bureau advised min wages etc etc. Standard/clean win-win business.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
Huwei was on track to be the globes largest manufacturer of telecom equipment, but the CCP buggered that up.

In China, all and every Chinese company must make over to the government any and all records relating to their customers, international and otherwise.

The CCP wanted Huwei to provide all the data and could legally insist that they do so and additionally instructed Huwei to produce products that could be used to harvest data.
The Five Eyes countries (US,UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) said 'NO' and Huwei has been excluded from the build out of the global 5G network. These days they are struggling to make their own
4G cell phones, let alone any 5G infrastructure. This is a classic case of the CCP trying to be a super power and have made aggressive and invasive policy decisions that have severely curtailed a globally
significant business.

More recently the CCP has been arresting foreign businessman for trumped up espionage charges, and interrogating many hundreds more. Not the sort of thing that inspires confidence if you want to visit a business.

I'm glad that you have sound and long standing business relationships with Chinese businesses. My limited experience is that the Chinese are always very interested in what they can do to make your
business prosper, and work to secure that. Compared to Japanese, US and European companies its a breath of fresh air. That environment is being soured by the Chinese political leadership.

Craig

[Mecanix]

I don't know, neither give a f about spies and others who don't mind their own business mind you lol. Money Talks at the end of the day, and Chinese partners are on that exact same frequency ("naturally"). I know nobody in their right mind who outsource and carries their business dealings with 'a CCP' (whatever that means) other than some brainwashed group-suicide cult. Again, must be a CNN/MSM thingy...