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  1. #1
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    hardinge fagor retrofit

    My retrofit machine controller failed and after having it fixed, I am not able to retrieve the decoded M functions. This is a machine built by upgrade technologies in 1993. Would anyone know the code or where I can get this.

    Thanks
    Scott

  2. #2
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    What Fagor control? I assume you mean the ladder/logic file is lost?
    You should have had a back up on file of all the parameters and Logic file.
    If you do not have this and it is a retrofit, then there is not alot of chance of obtaining this other than the retrofitter themselves.
    As a last resort, you would need someone who is capable of re-commissioning
    the machine.
    It seems the I.T. company is still in business, hopefully they have a copy.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  3. #3
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    functions

    Do you still need them, if it is a 8025t i have them.

  4. #4
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    I know this is an old post, but I am having the same problem, bought the machine with a dead battery and need the decoded M functions, or at least the procedure to enter them.
    Tinmuk
    *********************
    Any problem can be solved by the proper application of heat!

  5. #5
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Most of the Fagor manuals are on line, the method of programming control mnemonics are usually covered.
    A familiarity with boolean is an advantage.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  6. #6
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    Have you called Brad at Dynamic Machine Resourses, he has a tech called Paul who would know how to do that,
    www.dynamiccnc.com

  7. #7
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    Thanks, I will give him a call today.
    Tinmuk
    *********************
    Any problem can be solved by the proper application of heat!

  8. #8
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    In 1993, he has an 8025 T control, and setting the M-codes is fairly simple if you have the original machine I/O print. If you go to the print and you'll see it is wired back to the Fagor 25 pin I/O 2 port...... tell me what pin and what function as per the print and I can tell you how to set up the M-codes.

    These M-codes are set by the engine builder as per their machine.... its really simple, but we have to know the pin and the function to make it work. I can walk you thru it if I know this information.

    Or as somebody said earlier, Paul can probably do it as well.

  9. #9
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    I have looked through the documentation that I got with the machine and did not see an I/O print. This was a pretty standard Hardinge/Accuslide installation with threading and a Sabina VFD.

    Is there any way yo trace the pin-outs to see what goes where? I am good at mechanical stuff, but not so great at electronics.
    Tinmuk
    *********************
    Any problem can be solved by the proper application of heat!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinmuk View Post
    I have looked through the documentation that I got with the machine and did not see an I/O print. This was a pretty standard Hardinge/Accuslide installation with threading and a Sabina VFD.

    Is there any way yo trace the pin-outs to see what goes where? I am good at mechanical stuff, but not so great at electronics.
    With a standard accuslide, you do not have a lot of M-code outputs..... spindle M03/04, M08/09 coolant and I think they called it M13/M14 for collet open/shut and maybe a few others.

    If you want to trace it out, go to the I/O 2 port on the CNC. (It is the only 25 pin connector on the CNC)..... take the connector housing off and trace all wires that are connected from pins 3 thru 13 and also pins 22-25...... a lot of them should have no wire connected because I know they did not use all M-code outputs. Once we know where they go, I can tell you how to set-up the M-code table. The connector is on the back of the CNC on the pendant. (The 8025 is a compact CNC and is all 1 unit) the wires will then undoubtly run thru the arm and into the electrical cabinet.

    My next question, is parameters..... do you know them ? Have you re-entered them ?

    After you are all done, I'll teach you how to back this data up so you can just do a reload in the event of future problems.

    Todd

  11. #11
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    I will trace the pins tomorrow and let you know where they go.

    The rest of the parameters seem to be intact. At least there is info in all the parameter pages I have looked at.

    BTW, Thanks for the help, it is really apreciated.
    Tinmuk
    *********************
    Any problem can be solved by the proper application of heat!

  12. #12
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    I went out and took a look at the wiring to see what I needed to do to trace everything, and I found hand written on the inside of the cabinet behind the terminal block was the following.

    black-forward
    red-reverse
    red/black-M9
    white/black-M8
    orange-M12

    So I looked for those color wires at the relay strip and traced them to the 25 pin DB connetor at I/O 2 and here is the pinout

    3- black
    4-red
    5-red/black
    6-white/black
    7-orange

    Now I noticed that pin 1 & 2 are jumped together at the connector to a heavy white wire which appears to go to a transformer in the original Hardinge power box. There is also a heavy blue wire that is jumped from pin 19 to pin 20 and appears to go to a connector marked L on the Sabina VFD.

    I also checked the fwd and rev on the Sabina and red is indeed reverse and black is forward, just like the handwritten note indicated.

    I hope all that makes sense to you. If needed I can check everything more carefully, but as you said there are not a lot of M-function on this machine. spindle, coolant, threading and collet are it.
    Tinmuk
    *********************
    Any problem can be solved by the proper application of heat!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinmuk View Post
    I went out and took a look at the wiring to see what I needed to do to trace everything, and I found hand written on the inside of the cabinet behind the terminal block was the following.

    black-forward
    red-reverse
    red/black-M9
    white/black-M8
    orange-M12

    So I looked for those color wires at the relay strip and traced them to the 25 pin DB connetor at I/O 2 and here is the pinout

    3- black
    4-red
    5-red/black
    6-white/black
    7-orange

    Now I noticed that pin 1 & 2 are jumped together at the connector to a heavy white wire which appears to go to a transformer in the original Hardinge power box. There is also a heavy blue wire that is jumped from pin 19 to pin 20 and appears to go to a connector marked L on the Sabina VFD.

    I also checked the fwd and rev on the Sabina and red is indeed reverse and black is forward, just like the handwritten note indicated.

    I hope all that makes sense to you. If needed I can check everything more carefully, but as you said there are not a lot of M-function on this machine. spindle, coolant, threading and collet are it.
    The Pin 1 & 2 jumpered together is just the 0v power supply reference voltage and that is okay. (pins 19 & 20 is from the 24vdc power supply.... and that is good as well)

    Your information is good, we can now set your M-codes.....

    Do you know where the M-code table is ? Hit "9" for special modes and then going out of memory, his 2 for M-codes..... you should see an M-code table that probably shows M?? and then followed by 15 zeros on the top row and 17 zeros on the bottom row.....

    You need to set-up the following:

    M03 - 100000000000000
    01000000000000001
    M04 - 010000000000000
    10000000000000001
    M05 - 000000000000000
    11000000000000001

    The above are for Spindle control, and just so you know what is going on..... the top line designates the output it turns on when you execute an M-code in your program, the bottom line indicates what that same M-code output turns off..... you'll notice above, the M03 turns on the first M-code output (pin 3), but turns off the 2nd M-code output (pin 4) Therefore, M03 and M04 cancel each other as they should.........you'll notice that M05 doesn't turn anything on, it just turns off either M03 or M04 if they were on.....

    On that model, there is 15 dedicated maintained outputs you can use for M-codes..... but, you will notice that there are 17 digits in the bottom row...... this is because the last two digits (far right) have different meanings..... Bit 16 indicates if that particular M-code is executed at the beginning or end of a block of code. (0 = beginning, 1 = end) For example:

    N10 G01 X50 M03........ if you set the parameteer to zero, then when the CNC got to this block of code, it would first execute the M03, thus turning on the spindle and then would position to X50 (As most M-codes are done).... but it is your choice.

    The Bit 17 (last bit on the right) indicates if after executing the M-code if it has to wait for the M-done signal to (via the feedhold input) to transition before it continues in the part program. (0 = wait, 1 = do not wait) In your case, I have these set at 1, do not wait. Most you do not wait on like coolant or spindle control...... but there are cases you have to wait for confirmation before continuing on in the program. (Example: Auto Turret, where it fires an M06 Tx and then waits for confirmation from the interface that the tool position has been reached by the auto turret)

    I do not remember for certain.... its been a few years since I plowed into a CMS interface, but I do not believe they are awaiting confirmation from any of the M-codes, but I guess you'll find out. But, in any regards, it is your choice, but if you choose for it to wait on any particular M-code, the interface has to be wired to give this confirmation via the feedhold/m-confirmation input.... (Pin 15 of I/O 1)

    With that said, your others per your information is:

    M09 - 001000000000000
    00010000000000001
    M08 - 000100000000000
    00100000000000001
    M10 - 000000000000000
    00110000000000001

    I am guessing on the M10..... I assume that will shut down both stages of coolant... which is what I believe the M08 and M09 are.... but verify by hard connections.

    M12 - 000010000000000
    00000000000000001
    M13 - 000000000000000
    00001000000000001

    I believe going out of memory that M12 was open (or shut your air collet) and I believe also going out of memory that M13 would turn off M12, thus shutting your collet. But, you will know which is which after you execute one.

    M30 - 0000000000000000
    111110000000000001

    This last M-code is for your M30 end of program command, all it does is shut down anything that may have been left running as you can see by the 1's in the bottom row.

    After changing all of your M-codes, hit the reset key and then via Teach-In mode, (MDI type command mode), execute some of the M-codes and see if you get the desired effect.

    As a note, there are machine parameters that are involved with all of this that must be set-up correctly.... I am assuming you have those set correctly already from a list ?

    Hope this kind of helps.

    good luck !
    Todd

  14. #14
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    What is the actual procedure for entering the code?
    Do I just type M03 100000000000000 01000000000000001 and then press enter?

    Prior to this I have tried M03 recall and M03 enter, but that didn't do anything

    the other machine parameters seem to be ok, but I will go thru them and see if they make sense
    Tinmuk
    *********************
    Any problem can be solved by the proper application of heat!

  15. #15
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    Tim,

    Yes, you should just be able to key in M03 and type all of your 1's and 0's..... if it does not do anything, this indicates to me you are locked out of them.

    (Did you have a battery failure ?)

    You enter in a code, I think PKAI0 or PKAIN I do not remember which (Its been many years.) But, these lock and unlock codes are listed in the manual......I just have to remember which mode you enter them in as well.

    What happens when you loose our batteries, memory scrambles and locks you out...... its no big deal, you just have to enter in the unlock codes. I recommend you call our Service Department at 800-423-2467 and ask them for the memory unlock codes and where to enter them......

    Sincerely,
    Todd

  16. #16
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    btw, ask for Patrick in service department.... he does the bench repairs for 8025 controls and knows the lock/unlock codes by heart..... tell him you have the 8025 T... they are different codes for the milling. There are two different codes you need......

  17. #17
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    I did have a battery failure, that's what started this whole mess. I do have the unlock codes in the manual. I will try all this out this weekend and hope it works.

    After I get all this done I will will start on the Z axis following error i was getting prior to the battery failing......
    Tinmuk
    *********************
    Any problem can be solved by the proper application of heat!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinmuk View Post
    I did have a battery failure, that's what started this whole mess. I do have the unlock codes in the manual. I will try all this out this weekend and hope it works.

    After I get all this done I will will start on the Z axis following error i was getting prior to the battery failing......
    Z axes following error is simply the CNC telling you the Servo's are not keeping up with the command. Get your parameters set back to what they were..... if you do not know what they were, you'll have to go back thru each one at a time. The parameters are set by the builder as per their machine configuration and preferences..... you have to figure out what they were doing. When you have questions, call our service department.

    As a note, those K1 and K2 parameters are very important for servo performance and to close the servo loop, the directional parameters are extremely important.

    good luck !

  19. #19
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    I have a Accuslide and Fagor 8025T and the collet open/close is M12/M13.

  20. #20
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    ok, i have tried every way I can think of the enter the M-codes, but the controller won't accept them. I know the unlock code works, because if I don't enter it I can't even type the 1's and 0's. When I enter the unlock code (opmode 6) it will let me type in the code, but when I press enter nothing happens.

    The checksum error is always present, does this indicate a bad memory location? Would downloading the parameters and reloading them help with this?
    Tinmuk
    *********************
    Any problem can be solved by the proper application of heat!

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