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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Haas Machines > Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor
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  1. #1
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    Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    I ended up purchasing an Eastwood QST-80/120 Scroll Compressor, and put it into service a few days ago... but I'm having issues with it, and while I'm waiting for Tech Support to come up with some ideas I'm wondering if anyone else had the same problem?

    I'm running it off a Phase Perfect solid state phase converter, and I'm having problems when the fan on the air compressor kicks in I'm getting a motor overload error on the air compressor ( Specific alarm message is: MOTOR: 004 FAN:1 )

    The fan motor doesn't turn on till the condenser coil gets up to 88c ( apx 190 degrees )

    The fan spins free... so it's not stuck. Also If I manually press in the contactor relay for the condenser fan it starts up fine and runs fine with no errors or alarms.

    So the compressor fires up and fills my 60 gal reserve air tank in about 2 min, but then once the condenser coil heats up and it starts calling for the fan it will give me that error.

    The problem is that it doesn't always happen, for example I ran 6 tests where I completely emptied the reserve tank, and then ran the compressor. It ran fine with no errors, and then once the compressor evaporator warmed up the errors started up.

    When I ran these tests I didn't have any of my other equipment turned on, so it was only the air compressor.

    Any thoughts or suggestions on what may be causing the issues?

    Thank You

    Kent

  2. #2
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    Quote Originally Posted by kentdesautel13 View Post
    I ended up purchasing an Eastwood QST-80/120 Scroll Compressor, and put it into service a few days ago... but I'm having issues with it, and while I'm waiting for Tech Support to come up with some ideas I'm wondering if anyone else had the same problem?

    I'm running it off a Phase Perfect solid state phase converter, and I'm having problems when the fan on the air compressor kicks in I'm getting a motor overload error on the air compressor ( Specific alarm message is: MOTOR: 004 FAN:1 )

    The fan motor doesn't turn on till the condenser coil gets up to 88c ( apx 190 degrees )

    The fan spins free... so it's not stuck. Also If I manually press in the contactor relay for the condenser fan it starts up fine and runs fine with no errors or alarms.

    So the compressor fires up and fills my 60 gal reserve air tank in about 2 min, but then once the condenser coil heats up and it starts calling for the fan it will give me that error.

    The problem is that it doesn't always happen, for example I ran 6 tests where I completely emptied the reserve tank, and then ran the compressor. It ran fine with no errors, and then once the compressor evaporator warmed up the errors started up.

    When I ran these tests I didn't have any of my other equipment turned on, so it was only the air compressor.

    Any thoughts or suggestions on what may be causing the issues?

    Thank You

    Kent
    I was looking at this compressor also, it will be interesting to know what the problem is, to me it sounds like the contactor, what is the activating coil voltage Ac/ Dc and does it have a snubber across the supply.
    Mactec54

  3. #3
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    The activating coil is Ac

    I'm not sure what a snubber is, but I'm guessing it's the component that I've circled in the attached photo ?

    Is a snubber similar to a resister? ( just curious )

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Contactor.jpg 
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ID:	472802

  4. #4
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    Quote Originally Posted by kentdesautel13 View Post
    The activating coil is Ac

    I'm not sure what a snubber is, but I'm guessing it's the component that I've circled in the attached photo ?

    Is a snubber similar to a resister? ( just curious )

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Contactor.jpg 
Views:	0 
Size:	107.8 KB 
ID:	472802
    Yes, that could be it, in that type of circuit, it can be made up of more than one competent, they can be ( R C ) Resistors and Capacitor, or a Varistors, some have Zener Diodes also.

    It looks to be wired very well.

    Take some power measurements when it cuts in, it may be just drawing too much current on startup.
    Mactec54

  5. #5
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Yes, that could be it, in that type of circuit, it can be made up of more than one competent, they can be ( R C ) Resistors and Capacitor, or a Varistors, some have Zener Diodes also.

    It looks to be wired very well.

    Take some power measurements when it cuts in, it may be just drawing too much current on startup.
    I did a series of 10 test cyles this morning where I completely emptied my 60 gal reserve air tank and than ran the air compressor, and out of the 10 tests I had alarms on 3 of the cycles, and all 3 of those where when the voltage going to the contactor hit or exceded 240 v, ( the rest were in the 238v , 239v range )

    So I'm thinking that may be whats triggering the alarm.

    So now I'm guessing I have to find some type of power step down / stabilizer to get the power to be held in range.

  6. #6
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    Quote Originally Posted by kentdesautel13 View Post
    I did a series of 10 test cyles this morning where I completely emptied my 60 gal reserve air tank and than ran the air compressor, and out of the 10 tests I had alarms on 3 of the cycles, and all 3 of those where when the voltage going to the contactor hit or exceded 240 v, ( the rest were in the 238v , 239v range )

    So I'm thinking that may be whats triggering the alarm.

    So now I'm guessing I have to find some type of power step down / stabilizer to get the power to be held in range.
    It should be able to handle that as the Voltage in NA can easily be 245v, see if there is an adjustment on the contactor, or what is the contactor spec's, and I will see what I can find.
    Mactec54

  7. #7
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    It should be able to handle that as the Voltage in NA can easily be 245v, see if there is an adjustment on the contactor, or what is the contactor spec's, and I will see what I can find.
    Sounds great...

    I will do some digging on this end, but I did find the model # on the contactor. It's a Schneider Electric LC1D09

    I'm wondering if it may be the voltage coming from the contactor to the fan motor that's triggering the alarm...
    Since I'm getting Motor overload alarms on the Fan motor, maybe the contactor can handle the voltage, but the fan can't

    Once I hear back from the Eastwood tech support I was going to see if the parameters inside the control panel on the compressor could be changed to give a little wiggle room on that voltage thats going to the fan motor.

    Thanks,

    Kent

  8. #8
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    Quote Originally Posted by kentdesautel13 View Post
    Sounds great...

    I will do some digging on this end, but I did find the model # on the contactor. It's a Schneider Electric LC1D09

    I'm wondering if it may be the voltage coming from the contactor to the fan motor that's triggering the alarm...
    Since I'm getting Motor overload alarms on the Fan motor, maybe the contactor can handle the voltage, but the fan can't

    Once I hear back from the Eastwood tech support I was going to see if the parameters inside the control panel on the compressor could be changed to give a little wiggle room on that voltage thats going to the fan motor.

    Thanks,

    Kent
    Could be the inrush when the contactor closes it's too much for the Fan motor, what is the amp rating voltage of the fan.
    Mactec54

  9. #9
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Could be the inrush when the contactor closes it's too much for the Fan motor, what is the amp rating voltage of the fan.
    220V
    60Hz
    0.49A
    160W
    1450R/Min


    The challenging thing is thats it's working fine today.... so it's hard to diagnose a piece of equipment when its currently working.

  10. #10
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    I bounced my issue by the company that I purchased my solid state phase converter from and he suggested a 3-phase 240v > 228v buck boost transformer of at least 15kVA.

    So I ordered one up and we will see if that fixes the issue.

    I've been running the air compressor all day today with my CNC and so far it's only alarmed 1 time. ( however it hasn't needed to run the fan motor yet because it cools down quick enough in between cycles )

    I do have to say that I am very, very happy with the nice quiet operation.... It's a joy to work next to the CNC now without that loud compressor clanking away.

    I will keep you posted once I install that transformer.

    Take Care...

    Kent

  11. #11
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    Quote Originally Posted by kentdesautel13 View Post
    220V
    60Hz
    0.49A
    160W
    1450R/Min


    The challenging thing is thats it's working fine today.... so it's hard to diagnose a piece of equipment when its currently working.
    Such a small motor like this should not be turned on / off with a contactor, they should be using a solid-state relay, so this is where the problem is, not with your power supply.
    Mactec54

  12. #12
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    Quote Originally Posted by kentdesautel13 View Post
    I bounced my issue by the company that I purchased my solid state phase converter from and he suggested a 3-phase 240v > 228v buck boost transformer of at least 15kVA.

    So I ordered one up and we will see if that fixes the issue.

    I've been running the air compressor all day today with my CNC and so far it's only alarmed 1 time. ( however it hasn't needed to run the fan motor yet because it cools down quick enough in between cycles )

    I do have to say that I am very, very happy with the nice quiet operation.... It's a joy to work next to the CNC now without that loud compressor clanking away.

    I will keep you posted once I install that transformer.

    Take Care...

    Kent
    The transformer will lower the voltage, which should help, but may not solve the problem.
    Mactec54

  13. #13
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    Sounds like a fun setup. We have the 30/60. the inrush is like 5amps on 240 single phase. Where do you have the wild-leg connected too? By that I mean the 240 VAC single-phase is passed thru the device, and the wild-leg (generated 3rd line) is connected up. You might try switching two wires? If you check the AC underload, are they within a few percent? On my RPC unit, we usually run tests as AC L1 to L2, AC L2 to L3 and AC L1 to L3. and jot them down. They should be with-in some tolerance spec as rated by the devices mfr. Say 10VAc? anyway my point is there can be times when you have internal power requirements that expect to use voltages derived from the 3 phases sent in. example would be the Haas where they split-up and run various sections from the 3 phase power-in On the Haas's L2 should be the wild-leg input. Not L1 or L3. (typically). Hence the thought to possibly swap two of the lines? (preferrbly making the wild-leg one of the swaps. btw/ Did they say way they suggested a buck-boost Xformer? A Xformer can help w/ some in-rush demands but it's limited. The circuit to pull in the contactor at 190 Degrees would be suspect to me at this point. but I've never seen their 3 phase compressor. I know on our 30/6- eastwood we love the unit except for the moisuture issues. post back... curious how it turns out

  14. #14
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    Quote Originally Posted by countryguy View Post
    Sounds like a fun setup. We have the 30/60. the inrush is like 5amps on 240 single phase. Where do you have the wild-leg connected too? By that I mean the 240 VAC single-phase is passed thru the device, and the wild-leg (generated 3rd line) is connected up. You might try switching two wires? If you check the AC underload, are they within a few percent? On my RPC unit, we usually run tests as AC L1 to L2, AC L2 to L3 and AC L1 to L3. and jot them down. They should be with-in some tolerance spec as rated by the devices mfr. Say 10VAc? anyway my point is there can be times when you have internal power requirements that expect to use voltages derived from the 3 phases sent in. example would be the Haas where they split-up and run various sections from the 3 phase power-in On the Haas's L2 should be the wild-leg input. Not L1 or L3. (typically). Hence the thought to possibly swap two of the lines? (preferrbly making the wild-leg one of the swaps. btw/ Did they say way they suggested a buck-boost Xformer? A Xformer can help w/ some in-rush demands but it's limited. The circuit to pull in the contactor at 190 Degrees would be suspect to me at this point. but I've never seen their 3 phase compressor. I know on our 30/6- eastwood we love the unit except for the moisuture issues. post back... curious how it turns out
    All compressors you can have moisture problems, that is why they have air dryers, which you need for CNC machines.

    When you have/ use a Phase Perfect you don't really have a wild leg, they are a balanced system, which is better than straight 3Ph power, from the grid, they are also 98% efferent. so, he has no issue with a wild leg.

    I would never use an RPC on CNC machines, they work, and a lot use them, over time you will have electrical repairs because of the RPC.
    Mactec54

  15. #15
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    Just a quick update on things...

    I still havn't received the buck booster, but the other day I ran most of the day with my CNC and the Air compressor running and the air compressor only alarmed (1) time, but I monitored my power at the air compressor and it was running in the 237V range.

    Yesterday I tried to use the air compressor again and it started alarming right away ( My power at the compressor unit was 243V )

    And this is consistent with my previous testing.... ( any time my power was in the 241v or higher it resulted in alarms )

    Eastwood tech support wants to try a different control panel / controller unit, so they are sending that out.

    On a side note, since i will be running (2) CNC's and an air compressor I ended up ordering a second phase perfect phase converter.

    My plan is to have it sitting right by the other one and hooked up into the same 200 amp panel on as the other phase converter.

    They would share the same earth ground.

    This shouldn't be an issue?

  16. #16
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    I agree with you 110% on the need for a air dryer...

    I was having all kinds of problems with my solenoid valves on my tool changer hanging, and It ended up being moisture problems from the air line.
    As soon as I added the air line dryer it fixed it and haven't had any problems since

  17. #17
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    Afternoon guys; to clarify my remarks, we run an air-dryer on the output too. a must. It was the closed system for lubrication fluid with the moisture filter and fluid filter that we had problems with. We ended up moving the location of the compressor and that helped. The moisture issues we had were related to the internal lubricating system getting excessive water build-up. It became excessive to the point of needing to drain the water off on a regular basis when running long days in the humid summer. We now also swap the water filters regularly after a big job. I run them in a light convection pizza oven and dry them out. When you open the small lub fluid tanks drain valve after some hot /cold cycles you can see the water flow out. We now just watch it closer. There are a lot of posts on the Eastwood forum on the subject. Overall , We love the Eastwood unit for the cost and output. Was just something to be aware of. Depends on the humidity.

    On the phase perfect; Would love one here too. Matter of affordability for us. I did call them a few times as I thought they generated all 3 outputs digitally. On the manual link below, page 9- The 240 single phase is passed thru the unit ( when the contactor is active) from L1 & L2 directly into T1 and T2, while T3 is the generated line out. They have a much more efficient system for sure but I think they still simply pass L1 and L2 out to your equipment while monitoring the conditions of the generated power leg and adapting as needed. I was interested in the thread as we are getting a 2nd/new machine and actually need to again look at a new (larger) 3 phase generator. Any notes on the model/type and what sold you on it would be appreciated.

    Manual: https://www.phasetechnologies.com/do...Manual_V20.pdf

    Something we did to help manage that with a rural power and rotary RPC was an addition of the following transformer device. Worked really well to date.
    https://phaseconverters.phase-a-mati...ge-stabilizers

    enjoy the gear!
    CG

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    All compressors you can have moisture problems, that is why they have air dryers, which you need for CNC machines.

    When you have/ use a Phase Perfect you don't really have a wild leg, they are a balanced system, which is better than straight 3Ph power, from the grid, they are also 98% efferent. so, he has no issue with a wild leg.

    I would never use an RPC on CNC machines, they work, and a lot use them, over time you will have electrical repairs because of the RPC.

  18. #18
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    Re: Having problems with my new Scroll air Compressor

    Quote Originally Posted by countryguy View Post
    Afternoon guys; to clarify my remarks, we run an air-dryer on the output too. a must. It was the closed system for lubrication fluid with the moisture filter and fluid filter that we had problems with. We ended up moving the location of the compressor and that helped. The moisture issues we had were related to the internal lubricating system getting excessive water build-up. It became excessive to the point of needing to drain the water off on a regular basis when running long days in the humid summer. We now also swap the water filters regularly after a big job. I run them in a light convection pizza oven and dry them out. When you open the small lub fluid tanks drain valve after some hot /cold cycles you can see the water flow out. We now just watch it closer. There are a lot of posts on the Eastwood forum on the subject. Overall , We love the Eastwood unit for the cost and output. Was just something to be aware of. Depends on the humidity.

    On the phase perfect; Would love one here too. Matter of affordability for us. I did call them a few times as I thought they generated all 3 outputs digitally. On the manual link below, page 9- The 240 single phase is passed thru the unit ( when the contactor is active) from L1 & L2 directly into T1 and T2, while T3 is the generated line out. They have a much more efficient system for sure but I think they still simply pass L1 and L2 out to your equipment while monitoring the conditions of the generated power leg and adapting as needed. I was interested in the thread as we are getting a 2nd/new machine and actually need to again look at a new (larger) 3 phase generator. Any notes on the model/type and what sold you on it would be appreciated.

    Manual: https://www.phasetechnologies.com/do...Manual_V20.pdf

    Something we did to help manage that with a rural power and rotary RPC was an addition of the following transformer device. Worked really well to date.
    https://phaseconverters.phase-a-mati...ge-stabilizers

    enjoy the gear!
    CG
    Sounds like you need to use automatic drains, so it can drain when it has too much condensate in it. do you have drops in the air lines, with drains at the bottom, this will help a lot as well, as the condensate will collect in the drops and not the main line.

    Phase Perfect PT030 I have had for a few years now, it mostly runs a 60-ton Boy injection molding machine, plus other CNC machines that need 3ph power, how efficient they are along with their balanced 3ph output, makes them a buy, in comparison to an RPC. yes, they are spendy. but not if you have to replace a VFD Drive in your CNC machine.
    Mactec54

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