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IndustryArena Forum > WoodWorking Machines > DIY CNC Router Table Machines > How can I detect when my tool holder gets in this situation?
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  1. #1
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    How can I detect when my tool holder gets in this situation?

    Every once in a while the tool holder on my changer gets in the situation as shown in the picture. I'm not sure how this happens, The picture makes it look like there are flats on the "Teeth" but up close I don't seee any. This has happened with almost every tool holder I have (12 Total), and no particular position in the tool rack. The spindle can spin freely and tools can spin in there forks (But does take a little effort). I have no idea how this happens.

    I need a way to detect when this happens. At the top of the spindle the drawbar goes up, but acording to the drawings there is an internal spring, so the "drawbar in position" sensor returns true.

    Any idea on how I can detect or prevent this?

  2. #2
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: How can I detect when my tool holder gets in this situation?

    The only suggestion that I can think of is to look at the sensor adjustment and see if it can be adjusted to detect this condition. Something in the drawbar system is out of position in this condition, so maybe moving the sensing location would pick up this condition.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  3. #3
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    Re: How can I detect when my tool holder gets in this situation?

    Usually there is a sensor that chceck if drawbar is retracted to completely closed position,

  4. #4
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    Re: How can I detect when my tool holder gets in this situation?

    What sort of tool holder is that?
    7xCNC.com - CNC info for the minilathe (7x10, 7x12, 7x14, 7x16)

  5. #5
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    Re: How can I detect when my tool holder gets in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by pippin88 View Post
    What sort of tool holder is that?
    This in a Giordano Colombo Spindle that came from a Morbidelli CNC. It's a ISO 30 holder.

  6. #6
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    Re: How can I detect when my tool holder gets in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TTalma View Post
    Every once in a while the tool holder on my changer gets in the situation as shown in the picture. I'm not sure how this happens, The picture makes it look like there are flats on the "Teeth" but up close I don't seee any. This has happened with almost every tool holder I have (12 Total), and no particular position in the tool rack. The spindle can spin freely and tools can spin in there forks (But does take a little effort). I have no idea how this happens.

    I need a way to detect when this happens. At the top of the spindle the drawbar goes up, but acording to the drawings there is an internal spring, so the "drawbar in position" sensor returns true.

    Any idea on how I can detect or prevent this?
    It looks like the spindle orientation is off, the spindle is not where it needs to be, when a tool change is taking place, is there an encoder on the spindle, or a sensor of some kind to orientate the spindle. this would be what you need to be looking at. the spindle needs an in-position sensor.
    Mactec54

  7. #7
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    Re: How can I detect when my tool holder gets in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    The only suggestion that I can think of is to look at the sensor adjustment and see if it can be adjusted to detect this condition. Something in the drawbar system is out of position in this condition, so maybe moving the sensing location would pick up this condition.
    Thanks for the suggestion. According toColombo (the spindle manf.) there are 3 positions, Drawbar open, Drawbar closed, Tool seated.

    I took a bunch of measurements this morning. I found that the drawbar closed is 2mm lower than when the teeth are aligned like in the picture. This makes sense as the teeth are 3mm deep and when seated the teeth are not fully engaged. The tool seated position is always correct though.

    I will try adjusting the sensor so that it only reads in position when correct. Acording to the data sheet for the sensor it has a 3 mm detection area around it so I think this would be sensitive enough.

  8. #8
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    Re: How can I detect when my tool holder gets in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    It looks like the spindle orientation is off, the spindle is not where it needs to be, when a tool change is taking place, is there an encoder on the spindle, or a sensor of some kind to orientate the spindle. this would be what you need to be looking at. the spindle needs an in-position sensor.
    No there is no encoder on the spindle. According to all the documentation this tool holder is self algining.

  9. #9
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    Re: How can I detect when my tool holder gets in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TTalma View Post
    No there is no encoder on the spindle. According to all the documentation this tool holder is self algining.
    It can only be self-aligning, if the spindle does not move in between tool changes, so if you were to do a spindle warm up, and then select a Tool it could quite easily do what has happened.

    It should be self-aligning with all those teeth, if the spindle moves though after it has dropped a tool in its pocket, then it could easily do what has happened in your photo.

    Does it lock the spindle when the tool is changing, this would be done with DC Braking if it has this.
    Mactec54

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    It can only be self-aligning, if the spindle does not move in between tool changes, so if you were to do a spindle warm up, and then select a Tool it could quite easily do what has happened.

    It should be self-aligning with all those teeth, if the spindle moves though after it has dropped a tool in its pocket, then it could easily do what has happened in your photo.

    Does it lock the spindle when the tool is changing, this would be done with DC Braking if it has this.
    The spindle spins free. If you spin it with your hand it spins quite easily. Which makes it surprising that it can get in that position. If I try to do it manually it can take like 30 trys to get it to happen when I'm guiding it.

    I was thinking about it today and it probably happens once a month, or after several hundred tool changes.

    I will have time tomorrow to mess with the sensors. I have a tool holder with messed up threads. I am going to put a weld in a couple of teeth and grind/file it even with the top of the teeth for testing.

  11. #11
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    Re: How can I detect when my tool holder gets in this situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TTalma View Post
    The spindle spins free. If you spin it with your hand it spins quite easily. Which makes it surprising that it can get in that position. If I try to do it manually it can take like 30 trys to get it to happen when I'm guiding it.

    I was thinking about it today and it probably happens once a month, or after several hundred tool changes.

    I will have time tomorrow to mess with the sensors. I have a tool holder with messed up threads. I am going to put a weld in a couple of teeth and grind/file it even with the top of the teeth for testing.
    Yes, the spindle drawbar sensor would be important, in this case then, with this sensor set correct, hopefully it will not start the spindle when it is like this.
    Mactec54

  12. #12
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    Re: How can I detect when my tool holder gets in this situation?

    So just a follow-up for anyone interested. I adjusted the sensor, and added a break in the tool changer code to move to a clear position and wait until I pressed the continue button. After 2 weeks if happened and I did verify the holder was in the position like shown in the initial post. So good to see that it working!

    I changed the code to try re-chucking the tool holder, if after one try and it works, it will log a message and continue, if it doesn't work it will move to the clear position and wait. So hopefully no more issues!

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