[sin_arms]

Roughly a year ago I was on the fence about buying a Tormach lathe or a Smithy Automate lathe. After going back and forth many time I finally decided to go with the Smithy based on it having an industrial controller and servos. That was a huge mistake because this thing has been a pile of junk. Here is a video review of that lathe and my experience with Smithy/Automate

https://youtu.be/MWMmBdYPuR0

[bigngreen]

Man I'm glad I'm not buying till next spring, I'm doing the same work and was convinced one of the Automate lathes would work out but really wanted to see your review.
Looks like a Tormach may be a better solution, I'm in BFE Montana and can't have poor support, I have no issues being my own service but gotta have good support and parts which clearly isn't Automates strong point.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[300sniper]

Why in the world aren't you chambering and doing other barrel work on your Lynx?

[sin_arms]

Why in the world aren't you chambering and doing other barrel work on your Lynx?

Just picked it up a few months ago and haven't had time to really sit down with it and get stuff going. I will be doing that shortly

[sin_arms]

Man I'm glad I'm not buying till next spring, I'm doing the same work and was convinced one of the Automate lathes would work out but really wanted to see your review.
Looks like a Tormach may be a better solution, I'm in BFE Montana and can't have poor support, I have no issues being my own service but gotta have good support and parts which clearly isn't Automates strong point.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

It could of been the perfect machine but yeah with the support issues there is pretty much no support. I've heard this from a few other people that have seen my review.

[300sniper]

Just picked it up a few months ago and haven't had time to really sit down with it and get stuff going. I will be doing that shortly

Gotcha. Makes sense.

[rdsi]

I was on the fence when I bought my lathe. I finally decided on the Tormach but I now have my regrets too. So I wouldn’t be so quick to jump ship for something that looks better.

Yeah, Tormach support is always responsive but its a mixed bag depending on the issue. For the most part their trouble shooting methodology works for the simple common occurrences & people report a great experience. However, it’s not picture perfect as the hoopla would have you believe and I have issues they are ignoring.

From my perceptive it is a series of compromises & learning to live with them. I knew this when I made my decision and I had some experience with it having purchased a 1100. However, with the lathe it has been a little more than expected, and in my opinion the engineering behind it is a mess!

So I console myself by remembering the basis for my purchase decision – COST. I make prototype parts for my own ideas. I can afford the time to fix issues with the machines or learn how to work around them. I’m not machining for profit so I can put up with all those issues & that was an acceptable trade-off for lower cost of ownership. If I were in the machining business these would not be the machine(s) I would consider.

So my suggestion is think before you jump :drowning: It’s unfortunate but this is reality with the class of machinery from china. It sounds like you have electrical problems. If you’re not electrical find someone who is. I liked that machine, maybe we should swap problems – how far are you from AR

[MichaelHenry]

However, it’s not picture perfect as the hoopla would have you believe and I have issues they are ignoring.

From my perceptive it is a series of compromises & learning to live with them. I knew this when I made my decision and I had some experience with it having purchased a 1100. However, with the lathe it has been a little more than expected, and in my opinion the engineering behind it is a mess!

What issues have you had and sorts of engineering problems do you see? I also have the Tormach lathe and am curious to see how much our experiences converge or diverge.

[coffeetek]

What issues have you had and sorts of engineering problems do you see? I also have the Tormach lathe and am curious to see how much our experiences converge or diverge.

I would love to hear it too before I drop $17k on Tormach Lathe... I have quote payment queued but still thinking it over...

[rdsi]

My 2 biggest issues are the VFD and Z axis. I still have hopes that I can resolve the VFD issue but the Z axis is another story.

First the VFD is not programmed to use the braking resistor as described here. I called Tormach about it but they were in the dark and have never gotten back to me as promised. Although I reprogrammed my unit to make use of it there are still issues. Basically when using constant surface speed (CSS), the VFD cannot slow down the RPM’s quick enough while making cuts. So you end up with situations where you’re cutting way too fast. Example, if your facing 1” diameter SS at 72 SFM the RPM’s will vary from 250 RPM where X=1, to 2500 RPM where X=0. The first cut is OK but if your doing multiple passes the next one will retract and begin cutting before the RPM’s have dropped to the desired 250 RPM’s. Using the braking resistor helps but I’m still having issues with it especially using the 3-jaw chuck – because of increased inertia. I’m thinking there are some more programming tricks to try with the VFD, I can add some pauses into the code, or I might just get a bigger better VFD.

Now as for the Z axis in my opinion it’s a mistake & I regret not paying more attention to my gut feeling when I saw the saddle being pushed by the ball-screw via a cantilever. Hell, I can’t hardly get my QC holders off their dovetail without grabbing them centrally and pulling perpendicular. Try doing this by pulling on the toolbit, the holder just locks onto the dove tail and does not slide off.

Well, I see this type of action when I put an indicator on the saddle. I call it “jerk to position” and “negative backlash”. Again, I talked to Tormach about this and was first warned that I should not have messed around with the gibb. They stated that the factory setting could not be duplicated and that I now I have messed it up blah, blah, … Anyway, after a while they suggested having the turret option would help smooth things out and hinted that the design intended the turret be installed. Oh, maybe I need the optional 200 lb counter weight.

Anyway, when stepping manually my saddle cocks binding up until enough pressure is applied then jumps to the next position. So I step, nothing, step maybe something, then step and jump making up for the missed steps. This is what I call jerk to position. The interesting thing is when you reverse direction. First nothing happens because of backlash – maybe 2 steps – then the saddle rotates or cock the other way. This shows up as continued movement in the foreward direction until the gibb clearance is taken up – 10 to 20 steps – then finally you start to see movement in the reverse direction. So I call the pause and continued forward movement portion “negative backlash”. This happens because the saddle has to cock around in the other direction. Then its back to jerk to position. Also, after a move, there is always a little more movement (1 to 2 seconds) as the cantilever (spring) relaxes. If you indicate the ball-nut things are very tight and linear. I can only measure 2 tenths max variance/backlash here.

So in the end I’m not getting my G5 specification of 0.04 mm or 0.0015”. It’s more like a sloppy 0.003” at best. Anyway, I wasn't expecting this kind of compromise, but it is what it is. Knowing this if I need better accuracy I can program around it to compensate.

So back to the original post, it sounds like he’s just having some electrical issues that one should be able to resolve. I like that machine but it cost more than the Tormach and needs 3-phase. I’m just saying the grass is not always greener on the other side & for chambering barrels the Tormach might not serve well here based on my machine behavior.

Yeah I still have my regrets with the Tormach but I still haven’t found a substitution. If I just had 3-phase power I would have gotten a used commercial machine.

Just sharing my experience & thoughts ...

[coffeetek]

Yeah I still have my regrets with the Tormach but I still haven’t found a substitution. If I just had 3-phase power I would have gotten a used commercial machine.

Just sharing my experience & thoughts ...

Thank you and I appreciate you posting this. I have not known about any of this and before plunking down so much cash I want to go into it with eyes open knowing what major problems are. None of this was known from all my reading. Its probably not going to stop me from buying but I like to get to terms with it.

However I have also came to conclusion that there is no alternative available that can be used in normal home shop. I have no 3-phase power or huge space available which pretty much limits my options to Tormach only.

[newman55598]

Why not buy a phase converter and a used machine for less money?

[coffeetek]

Why not buy a phase converter and a used machine for less money?

Space...

[rdsi]

Why not buy a phase converter and a used machine for less money?

Yeah, I went around with this but I just don't have the power budget for it. The type of one-off sporadic machine work I do also plays into it.

[newman55598]

There was just a milltronics t14 lathe that sold on eBay for 2250.00. Plus a phase perfect. You would be less then 6000


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sin_arms]

Well I have some good news (hopefully) Smithy is swapping out my machine with a different model with full warranty. I will be getting an FL300 II , completely different machine but it will do everything I want. Should be getting it delivered monday.

[tmarks11]

Well I have some good news (hopefully) Smithy is swapping out my machine with a different model with full warranty. I will be getting an FL300 II , completely different machine but it will do everything I want. Should be getting it delivered monday.

Well that is awesome news. The two guys with FL300 on this board have seemed to like their machines.

[brianbonedoc]

Well that is awesome news. The two guys with FL300 on this board have seemed to like their machines.

^^^^ Yes I Do ^^^^

When you compare the SPL15 to the FL300, they really are the SAME price when you add in all the nickel and dime stuff Tormach makes you buy separately.
The FL300 enclosure - doesn't leak, period. coolant gets thrown all over the inside of the machine - but I have yet to see a drop on the floor. The turret indexes so fast you can barely see it.
1000ipm rapids make your heart skip a beat, but once you trust it - your parts come out fast. Even if you dont add live tooling, the FL300 can do full C axis. It's designed so well that when coolant drips down the draw tube- it has tray that feeds it right back to the tank. So those problems w/ the SPL15 leaking coolant through the draw tube are already solved.

The FL300 - is really an industrial grade machine. The servos are so fast and smooth. A big plus is you dont have to calibrate the X axis everytime to boot up the machine, like on the SPL15. Some folks have had up to 0.050 difference in their X axis each time they home their machines. On the Fl300 - you just home the machine, then make parts. While the Siemens 808d controller isn't as user friendly as PathPilot, it is rock solid. It doesn't make mistakes, only the user does. Although, I do love PathPilot and have installed it on my novakon mill.

[tmarks11]

^Even if you dont add live tooling, the FL300 can do full C axis

Does that mean that it comes with the 808D advanced controller? I believe the basic 808D controller can't handle the live axis, at least from what KadeSmith had posted.

[brianbonedoc]

The std 808d is what comes w the lathe- but It actually does do C axis- it can control 4 axes at once. That means X, Z, and C, plus a spindle. Programming is tricky but I found a mill-turn post for fusion that sorta works-ish