529,951 active members*
2,226 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
Page 1 of 2 12
Results 1 to 20 of 24
  1. #1
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    446

    IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    Any one else notice the charter oaks IH mill has taken a dramatic weight loss? 300lbs? I wanted to buy one soon and now not so much.
    I was really upset when I seen that. That makes the machine allot less rigid.
    High-Capacity Square Column Manual Bed Mill | Charter Oak Automation

  2. #2
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    194

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    Rigidity is not solely based on weight but in the geometry of the Machine. The column for instance has always been thinner yet larger than other RF45 clones but includes ribbings in the casting to improve stiffness. the weight loss I am sure has been accommodated in some way to avoid impacting performance. A simple inquiry with them would divulge such info.

  3. #3
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    446

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    Quote Originally Posted by dracozny View Post
    Rigidity is not solely based on weight but in the geometry of the Machine. The column for instance has always been thinner yet larger than other RF45 clones but includes ribbings in the casting to improve stiffness. the weight loss I am sure has been accommodated in some way to avoid impacting performance. A simple inquiry with them would divulge such info.
    You may believe that but I dont .I firmly believe Mass = rigidity = less chatter. This is why allot of people epoxy granite there machines.
    I have a doosan hp4000 at work we dedicate certain jobs to because of weight and capability to handle certain material.
    I contacted them with no return to my email.
    I wonder how a 700lbs ih mill would stack up to a older 1000lbs mill.

  4. #4
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    194

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    Quote Originally Posted by Arich0908 View Post
    You may believe that but I dont .I firmly believe Mass = rigidity = less chatter. This is why allot of people epoxy granite there machines.
    I have a doosan hp4000 at work we dedicate certain jobs to because of weight and capability to handle certain material.
    I contacted them with no return to my email.
    I wonder how a 700lbs ih mill would stack up to a older 1000lbs mill.
    Note: I did not say mass doesn't matter, Just that it is not the only factor in play.

  5. #5
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    11

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    Any owners of the newer version that can answer this?

  6. #6
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    446

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    Quote Originally Posted by fxstc View Post
    Any owners of the newer version that can answer this?
    Im not really sure they could unless they have an old one and new one to compare.
    Im not going to purchase a mill that size that is only 730lbs.
    Ive been out sourcing mills directly from china the past few days .

  7. #7
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    28

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    Quote Originally Posted by Arich0908 View Post
    You may believe that but I dont .I firmly believe Mass = rigidity = less chatter. This is why allot of people epoxy granite there machines.
    I have a doosan hp4000 at work we dedicate certain jobs to because of weight and capability to handle certain material.
    I contacted them with no return to my email.
    I wonder how a 700lbs ih mill would stack up to a older 1000lbs mill.
    It's not always about weight, consider the Moment of Inertia. A square section (~boxed column) MOI is driven by length^4. This means as the size of the box gets bigger, it is not a linear increase in strength, it's an exponential increase in strength.

    If they thinned the column without making the box bigger, then you're assessment is probably accurate regarding Mass = Rigidity.

  8. #8
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6618

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    This HF mill drill belt driven is listed at about 750 pounds.
    Milling / Drilling Machine - 1-1/2 HP

    I have the round column geared head mill very similar to the IH except for the square column. This picture isn't mine.


    It was listed at about 750 pounds as well I think. I would expect though that a square column mill would weight more. While there is a heavy yoke on these round columns and the columns are pretty thick, that still isn't as much meat as a square column variety.
    I honestly cannot see where they could get by removing 300 pounds of material.
    Are you certain there are not errors on the website?
    Have you contacted them and asked them to verify the weights, travels and sizes?
    Shortening the table will certainly remove some weight.
    Lee

  9. #9

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    I have 2 new Charter mills arriving today I hope, fingers crossed. Yesterday I asked Paul at Charter about this. This is his reply.

    The mill was once advertised at the 1000lb weight. This was long before we took over the company and I’m not sure if the claim was accurate. We are still working with the same supplier that the previous owner used and we are actually in the process of designing new heavier castings for our CNCs. The mill frame that you are receiving is the same one that we have always sent out and with the exception of minor quality improvements (finish to the dovetails etc..) there have been no major changes.

  10. #10

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    I guess the way to get to the bottom of this easily is to have someone with an older I.H. clone and had it shipped to find their bill of laden from the shipper and see if it's over 1000 lbs on the bill. That's the easiest solution to the question at hand.

  11. #11
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    487

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    I currently have mine in pieces (MD-001 - IH clone from late 2009) and I am planning on weighing the various pieces (base, column and z-slide, table, head, saddle, etc) as they make the trip from my old workshop to my new one. Some weights will be inclusive of the CNC conversion but I expect it to be a wash considering the weight of the removed items. Also, I have a 2hp 3phase motor instead of the stock 1 phase - but I wil weigh that separately too.
    As to rigidity - the weak area I've noticed is the column dovetails - they get a bit squishy in the middle and then your Z-slide will get tight at the top and bottom of the travel.

    BTW - anybody know when Machine Tools Warehouse closed up shop?

    Mike

  12. #12

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    Mike, looking forward to seeing the answer. I can't imagine being able to yank 300 lbs off the mill and not seeing a huge difference in machine performance and actual looks. . 300 lbs is a lot of steel to steal.

  13. #13
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    47

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    I spoke with the owners today.
    They said the mill has been the same weight its been since they have owned the new store. They also agreed it was once advertised as 1000lbs but not sure what has happen.
    I do know as the story goes 3 years ago or so. Tommy (from IH) and MTW were sent a shipment. The mills were well under weight. They called there suppliers and the issue was fixed the next batch. If they could do it once they could do it again.
    And here is the original original web site from David A before Aron. Ive done allot of home work on ths mill to know. Go to the frequently asked questions. It says the weight.
    Industrial Hobbies Square Column Mill

  14. #14

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    Isn't MTW out of business? I tried to contact them with no luck.

  15. #15
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    194

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    Quote Originally Posted by R.M.S. View Post
    I spoke with the owners today.
    They said the mill has been the same weight its been since they have owned the new store. They also agreed it was once advertised as 1000lbs but not sure what has happen.
    I do know as the story goes 3 years ago or so. Tommy (from IH) and MTW were sent a shipment. The mills were well under weight. They called there suppliers and the issue was fixed the next batch. If they could do it once they could do it again.
    And here is the original original web site from David A before Aron. Ive done allot of home work on ths mill to know. Go to the frequently asked questions. It says the weight.
    Industrial Hobbies Square Column Mill
    using that link I see 950 to 770. which is only 180 lbs difference. still a good chunk but not 300.

  16. #16

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    Well I don't know what to think. I do know a lot of people have bought the Charter mills and no one is complaining except the ones that where CNC turn keys that ended up semi turn keys. My 2 should be here today and I will CNC one and I'm sure I'll be happy. My RF31 CNC I built seems to be shrinking as I get more larger work. I still wonder if the 950 lb weight was correct in the beginning. I was I had a bill of laden from one a few years ago.

  17. #17
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    47

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    hmm
    Maybe some one could speak up that owns an old one and newer variant if that person exists.

  18. #18
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    446

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    Ive always read they were about 1000lbs.
    I wouldn't make such a big deal and take time to write about it if not.
    Ya the mill will have larger work envelope then every other mill . Me personally im on my 4th cnc . Ive been contemplating a used old vmc or this build.
    The next mill / cnc I own will be it for a long time so Im not going to sell myself short. I want what I want .
    I understand why others may compromise there decision.
    I feel like this whats stronger and more rigid a 2ft by 6ft cast iron rod thats 700lbs? or a .500 x .500 iron rod thats 30 feet long thats 700lbs? Meaning whats stronger the stock zay7045 (rf45) or the larger Zay7045FG (ih mill) when both weigh the same? The answers clear to me.
    I wrote mtw with no return to my email . I didnt know they went down.

  19. #19
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6618

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    It gets a bit confusing too that guys post the shipping weight. I know the crates on my Torus and Pulsar weighed at least 100 pounds. Maybe more. Then considering is shipped while being bolted to it's stand and the coolant trays, it gets a bit more confusing.
    Now the Pulsar is a little smaller mill than the Zay I have. It always ships with a stand and coolant tanks included. Shipping weight was over 900 pounds for it IIRC. What is really more critical is how the thing works. The Pulsar is a far better machine that the Zay would ever be. That is why the Zay sits here dormant. I have run in the spindle and thats about all I have ever done other than researched conversions for it. I think both Tormach and Novakon offer mills in a higher class that are cnc'ed that will out do just about any conversion you can do on a manual mill for anything near a similar cost. They are certainly worth researching and comparing if you haven't done that yet.
    Lee

  20. #20
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    54

    Re: IH / charter oak mill on a diet

    I have a recent Charter Oak 12z folks I think that mill is well over 700 lbs. I have a 29hp diesel Kubota tractor with a front end loader rated at about 1,000 lbs. I was able to lift my Grizzly G4003G lathe several feet off the floor and onto its stand, Grizzly lists the shipping weight at 1,300 lbs. Even if you subtract say 400 lbs for the shipping crate and stand that's still 900 lbs. I have lifted 500-600 lbs machines with the loader many times no problem. Well the 12z...it took everything the front loader had plus some bucket curl just to lift the thing a few inches so I could get the pallet out from under it, I was like damn. I had to buy a engine hoist to lift the thing up onto the stand. So I don't know what it weighs but no way its only 700 lbs.

Page 1 of 2 12

Similar Threads

  1. Charter Oak 12z mill inbound!
    By MetDetect in forum Benchtop Machines
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-23-2014, 05:15 AM
  2. Putting my Boss 5 on a Diet?
    By rogerfries in forum Bridgeport / Hardinge Mills
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-04-2013, 04:58 AM
  3. Charter Oak Automation
    By saabman in forum Charter Oak Automation Support Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-11-2013, 07:27 PM
  4. Too much wood in my diet!
    By Barefooter in forum ArtCam Pro
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-03-2006, 05:47 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •