[TonyUFN]

I feel a bit late to the party, but I finally got into the position of replacing the old Taig and building a G0704.
Currently I'm stalled as my conversion "kit" was found to be lacking and incorrectly packaged.

The mill from Grizzly came quickly which I was pleasantly surprised on Thursday afternoon.
Two days from the MO warehouse to my shop in TX is what I would consider fast.
Saia did a quick job of delivering, even though I contacted them ahead of time to let them know I was waiting and had the means to unload.

No damage was located during un-crating and I assumed that conversion would go smoothly.


Immediately after receiving an order confirmation that the mill was available and shipping, I ordered my ball-screw cnc conversion kit and all associated motion parts(23/34) from automation technologies.
All parts came in on Friday which was perfect considering we had allocated the whole weekend to get the conversion done and hopefully start constructing the chip-tray/enclosure... but we hit some snags along the way.
In my quick inspection of the parts in the kit, being confident the kit would be complete, I spotted the 3 ball-screws and the other misc parts and previous history with them as a vendor I was satisfied and begun conversion.
We followed the (poor) instructions on their site... aka, the videos. Cast iron chips started flying from the drill press, hand drill, die grinder.

The saddle took a little more work since I didn't feel comfortable using the nearly-dead taig. Instead, we used the drill press and die grinder to cut the pocket. I did not do a full removal, but cut a recess instead checking to make sure the ball-screw would fit.
The X screw fits fine, but will need a little more cleanup prior to final re-assembly. (pocket pics are missing, I was too happy that it was going together so smoothly).

(continued)

[Jim Dawson]

Looking Good so far!

[TonyUFN]

(sorry for the delay, post was moderated )

So here's where the first issue occurs.
As I progressed, I noticed that parts were not matching the assembly. The first and foremost was the Y ball-screw length. Since all the parts were somewhat not "counted" when I started(again, I assumed too much), it wasn't "noticed" that the Y screw was SHORT and missing an end. I started to investigate and attempted to call, but no response yet since it was Saturday.
I did locate (on their site) what was sent for Monday's email. Hopefully it will be easy to resolve. Unfortunately for me, I've already roughly assembled the rest previous to moving it to its final location in the other shop for wiring, etc.



As you can see from the site image snapshots, the wrong Y screw was sent, the Y stepper mounts were missing, and also noted are the shaft couplings are incorrect(received 1/4-1/4, instead of required 1/4-8mm)

Anyway... long story short, since the Z was assembled and drilled and the X was fitted and 90% installed... to reduce the likelihood of lost parts, I loosely assembled the remaining parts and sit awaiting resolution of the Y axis.

Gibbs locked, breaking in spindle... minus Y.



I'm definitely ready for the correct Y screw... yes, I used a hole saw... sue me

[TonyUFN]

I did run across what I would consider an issue, being a new kit... I wouldn't expect this sort of misalignment.
Not sure that my OCD would let me run with it even if jaw couplers would compensate... but what are your thoughts?
I'm more or less considering fabbing my own mounts once the machine is operational again, but ... the X alignment.
Am I incorrect in assuming that these should align properly?

[Jim Dawson]

I would expect those to align properly, that looks like a lot of offset. Maybe try assembling with the spacers in a different position, or see if there is enough slack in the bolt holes to adjust the position.. I think a new mount or some modification might be in order.

[TonyUFN]

I would expect those to align properly, that looks like a lot of offset. Maybe try assembling with the spacers in a different position, or see if there is enough slack in the bolt holes to adjust the position.. I think a new mount or some modification might be in order.

I spent quite a bit of time attempting various configurations of the mounts for alignment, but the same misalignment was always present. The only thing I did not do was drag out the calipers to measure the hole positioning on the mount plate, which I am going to assume would be the issue.
I may end up having to fire up the old taig and attempt making another using the first as a design reference... so much for saving time.

[awerby]

What's the problem with your Taig? I'd think it would be well-suited for making the mount plates you need for this project. Parts for the Taig are relatively inexpensive, so if you've worn it out, it shouldn't be too hard to get it operational again.

[TonyUFN]

The taig has some serious spindle runout and the backlash is well beyond the point of replacement(or mach3 compensation). It's had a rough life... with lazy maintenance & unkeep.
Eventually it will get repaired, but since this project is underway, it would be nice to receive parts of a quality equal to the price paid. Correct parts would be nice as well.
But yes, the taig will get replacement parts as well.

I'll take whatever lumps are given due to trusting my supplier in order to get the new machine operational.
I'm really kicking myself in the pants for not double checking the kit part-for-part from the start, but it was Saturday morning and I was wanting to get it moving.

[TonyUFN]

I have been in contact with John at Automation Technologies as well as Peter who put the kits together. From what was discussed, John has zero experience with the machines or kits and has only stocked items provided by Peter.
When describing the differences of what he sold me and what he actually shipped me, I think he is understanding that there is a difference between the setups. Manual(rear-mounted stepper) and non-manual capable "kits" for those not wanting to bore a hole in the base+column.
He describes on the site and shows pictures of a kit containing double-ended ball screws, but provides single-ended. In my case I was missing the parts even if I decided to give up the manual option.
John forwarded my email to Peter at 8:30am this morning and expecting decent business practice, I thought a reply might arrive from Peter at some point.

After John recommended that I attempt contacting Peter directly, I called and was answered directly. After explaining what was going on and that the incorrect kit was provided as well as missing parts, he offered to sell me the correct Y axis only.
At the same time he informed me that AT never purchased any double-ended kits and they were only offering single-end front mount(no boring) kits. My frustration has been with the description and depiction being double-ended, or I would have ordered from Peter's site directly(still obtaining my motion controls from John)

At this point, I am sending in my naked Y ball-screw since it is of no use to me and purchasing the Y direct from Peter. I'm just hoping that Peter and John can get their end figured out so we can move to resolve the extra $$ issue and hopefully get John's site straightened out with the correct information. I wonder how many others settled for the single-end version while thinking they ordered the double.

Funny part: Every time I typed names, I kept wanting to say Peter/Paul... although I hope there was no robbing of Peter or Paul going on

[TonyUFN]

I still went ahead and ordered the correct shaft couplings from John's site. I figure with the ball screw mix up, the correct couplings would be too far down the priority list and may get skipped.

Now on to researching further into motor/belt-drive upgrades...

[TonyUFN]

So... a little more back and forth between John and Peter.

AT(Automation Technologies) listed a rear-mount kit on their site, which I ordered. They sent an incomplete front-mount kit.
I contact AT and request the correct parts, and get forwarded to the maker of the kit. The missing parts situation would be simple, send me the missing parts.
But it doesn't end there... I purchased the listed item back-mount stepper kit.
AT tells me that they don't sell and supposedly never did sell the rear mount kit and to contact the maker. I call the maker of the kit and it will cost me $200+shipping to get the correct parts. I go back to AT and relay this information.
Since when is it the customer's obligation to deal between the manufacturer and vendor?

AT has since modified their product listing removing the 'ability to use the machine as CNC and manual mill drill' portion. But the pictures are still showing the double-ended ball screw and rear mount. (I saved/printed a pdf of the original listing yesterday)

I send a few heated emails as I'm beginning to come unglued. I finally hear that AT will be paying the maker for the corrected parts and think that it will get resolved.
In a phone conversation with the kit maker, he tells me that AT will be covering the cost and I would just return the incorrect ball-screw.
Immediately after I hang up the phone, it rings again... AT calls me and wants me to cover 1/2 the price of the Y axis.
Ridiculous...
The kit-maker has a site of their own, offering exactly what I wanted from the start... FOR LESS. I only went with AT due to what I thought was a good previous relationship as well as to simplify shipping.
I paid a higher shipping rate, higher kit price, and got... and incomplete incorrectly described package.
I found that the maker has a kit with electronics for approximately $300 less than I paid AT in the beginning. But then again, I thought I was paying for customer service.

*updated: at least AT just shipped my coupler order. I figured with the heated call he would simply cancel that order out of spite.

Sorry, I'll try to keep my ranting to a minimum from now on. I just get frustrated when I don't get what I pay good money for which is supposed to make life a little easier.

[pippin88]

Credit card chargeback?

[TonyUFN]

Credit card chargeback?

I'm giving it another day before I head down the road toward PayPal Buyer Protection claim. The last I heard from Automation Technologies was "I'll pay Peter" right before he hung up on me.
I'll give Peter a call again later to see if John did indeed pay. If he didn't, I will just so the machine doesn't continue to collect dust... then I'll submit the claim to Paypal and hope for the best.

[TonyUFN]

I just received an email from John with a forwarded Paypal payment confirmation to Peter for the correct parts.

fwiw, I'm still disturbed that I had to pressure so much to get this far. I'm not sure how many others would go that far and so fast to try to get it resolved.

[TonyUFN]

I received a call from Peter this morning. He was short stocked on one of my parts but said he was milling them then and was hoping to have them outbound later today.
Hopefully everything will be here in time for the weekend. I requested that he ship either priority mail or similar and I would pay the difference. So hopefully that goes as planned and I can resume where I left off and finish this weekend.
Framing up a chip tray and vmc style enclosure(with extra Z height for a possible quick tool changer) this week while I wait. I like flooding my bits.

[Jim Dawson]

This is just crazy. Sounds like the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing. Best of luck. Looking forward to the pictures of your build.

[yelims20]

I bought a $699 kit from these jerks... the only usable parts were the ball screws. Calling them just turned into a finger pointing event. I could not get them to exchange the correct couplers or nema23/34 mounts. It was my fault I guess, that i didnt start the project for a year after getting the kit. I'll never do anything with this company again.

[TonyUFN]

My parts came in yesterday although short the new stepper mounting screws, everything went together fine. I have to wait for Fastenal to open Monday to grab the M4 screws for the Y stepper.

I have had the X axis on my mind though and figure I need to clean up the ball mount pocket a bit as it drags towards each end. I figure the screw is binding due to a ball mount misalignment putting a flex somewhere.

[Wiggles84]

My parts came in yesterday although short the new stepper mounting screws, everything went together fine. I have to wait for Fastenal to open Monday to grab the M4 screws for the Y stepper.

I have had the X axis on my mind though and figure I need to clean up the ball mount pocket a bit as it drags towards each end. I figure the screw is binding due to a ball mount misalignment putting a flex somewhere.

I'd also look at the bottom of the table to see if the nut is hitting the casting of the table.

A few of us have had this be the issue for end of X axis travel binding.


Andrew

[metalfixer]

I'd also look at the bottom of the table to see if the nut is hitting the casting of the table.

A few of us have had this be the issue for end of X axis travel binding.


Andrew

It is a common problem, see thread:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...31570-cnc.html