[deadlykitten]

hello this one is about messing with a few parameters, so to deliver faster lathe setup :
... no origins variations when moving / replicating setups between "identical" lathes
... "program 0" and "offsets" without the touch setter
... faster jaw orientation
... faster live center setup
... etc

thus, without looking inside a cnc, it is possible to :
... apreciate machine layout
... draw it, for example, inside a CAD
... etc

long story short : origins, offsets and axis values ( with/out corections ) will represent quantifiably content, with physical references inside the machine

virtual machine inside CAS is created on same mechanism, so to say

ps : i don't know how to explain all this in a simpler manner help ?

[deadlykitten]

recipe / good to have :
... 0 dial gauge ( image 01 )
... length caliber ( image 02 )
... maybe ( precision ) level ( image 03 )

if something missing, just use your imagination

---

one more thing : inspect "stuff" so to be aware of target precision :
... 0 dial gauge; check :
...... accuracy when showing "real distance", when armed at 0
...... repetability
...... paralelism between frontals

... length caliber; check :
...... paralelism between frontals
...... it's length

... ( precision ) level : put it on something

if all ok, than, after editing parameters, errors for expected distances should be < 0.03

ps : some guys&girls always / regulary inspects their measurements instruments, thus this becames routine for them; me ?

[deadlykitten]

now let's mess with :
... Z offset
... Z origin
... X offset
... C origin
... spindle orientation zero offset
... W origin

what follows is 4 lb3k3><II osp3oo

[deadlykitten]

[ adjusting Z offset, to make it reflect absolute distance, relative to turret frontal ]

1) steps :

... press, by hand, the "length caliber" on turret frontal
... make sure that there is:
...... no contact between "length caliber" and dummies or holders
...... main contact on frontal face
... measure it at sensor
... if "offset value" <> caliber's length, than adjust Z+ value from "parameters \ sensor position"
... not necessary, but remember initial value

should be a good ocassion to calibrate Z- :
... measure something or anything else, across Z, with a micrometer just to know it's width
... now measure it on bought sides of the sensor, preferably in different Z offsets
... adjust only Z- from same parameters page, until diference between offsets is equal to micrometer measurement
... you may measure a groove insert, or a nut of a live holder, etc

2) final touches :

if changes were done during a setup, please update Z values :
... Z offset for working tools
... program 0
... turret safe Z
...... tip : use ADD function ( carefull with signs ) : | new_value - old_value | = | new_Z+ - old_Z+ |

for future setups, please check old habits :
... Z values for outside knifes is no longer arround where it was
...... common OD knifes from same provider, with different inserts, should have same Z offset
... center of simple live holder is no longer where it was
...... this value should now be the same on lathes with same turret
...... new value is half of turret's width acros Z
... barr puller also moved
...... so don't input "default Z"
... update turret Z safe position as required
... etc

3) achievements :

a) Z offset may be input without using the touch setter, because it's value reflects a measurable distance, relative to turret frontal; this is good, for example, when touch setter can not be lowered

b) simple live holders should have Z offset equal to half of turret width ( VTOFZ = -d2 / 2 ) ; pls check attached image

[deadlykitten]

[ adjusting Z origin, so Z zero will reflect absolute distance, relative to spindle frontal ]

1) steps :
... snap the dial gauge on spindle frontal ( M147 )
... press, by hand, the "length caliber" on turret frontal
... feed the turret so the "length caliber" will arm the "dial gauge" in 0
... remove bougth "length caliber" and "dial gauge", leaving turret Z position as it was
... please take a look at images 4 & 5
... set program origin 0 / VSZOZ = 0
... parameters > system parameter 2 > Z base zero offset
... not necessary, but remember initial value
... CALL "dial gauge real distance, when armed at 0" + " caliber's length"
... in my case : 140 = 50 + 90

2) final touches :

if changes were done during a setup, please update Z values :
... program 0
...... tip : use ADD function ( carefull with signs )
...... | new_value - old_value | = | new_Z_base_zero_offset - old_one |

3) achievement : Z origin may be input without using the tools corections, because it's value reflects a measurable distance, relative to spindle frontal this is good, for example, when programing Z zero from the chair, not being near the machine this last phrase is from teahole, since this thread : http://www.cnczone.com/forums/okuma/296192-origins.html

[deadlykitten]

[ adjusting X offset, to make it reflect absolute distance, relative to turret side / polygon ]

1) steps :
... press, by hand, the "length caliber" on turret side ( it's axis should be paralel to X )
... measure it at sensor
... if "offset value" / 2 <> caliber's length, than adjust X+ value from "parameters \ sensor position"
... measure a tool or something, and get close to a "known reference diameter" / cilinder :
....... chuck
....... a turned bar
....... live center
....... etc
... CALL tool's corections in MDI
... parameters > system parameter 2 > X base zero offset
... CALL "known reference diameter"

should be a good ocassion to calibrate X- :
... proceed as you know, or use sugestions from " adjusting Z offset ... "

2) final touches :

if changes were done during a setup, please update X values :
... X offset for working tools
... turret safe X

for future setups, please check old habits :
... center of ID holders is no longer where it was
....... new value is twice the distance between bore axis and turret
... center of live holders, with main axis paralel to Z, is no longer where it was
....... new value is twice the distance between main axis and turret
... update turret X safe position as required
... etc

3) achievement : X offset may be input without using the touch setter, because it's value reflects a measurable distance, multiplied by 2, relative to turret side; this is good, for example, when touch setter can not be lowered

4) observations :
... i changed all this during a setup
... after i restarted machining, OD knife delivered a diameter difference of 0.15, compared to before
... 0.15/2 reflects the precision when i got closed to a "known reference diameter"
... after the OD knife, machined stopped because my procedures, used to detect operator erros, detected that offsets were changed i was not expecting that well ...

---

on a lathe, X_offset=0 should reflect a natural position for the bore of default ID holder, thus it's coaxiality with the spindle so, at this moment, i restored all initial values

if there is a situation where X offset is difficult to input, than :
... measure the distance "d1" between the "point that would normally touch the setter" and "turret post"
... "d2" should be known : distance between bore of default ID holder and "turret post"
... "d2" is the reference distance on the turret, where X_offset is designed to be 0
... X_offset will be : ( d1 - d2 ) * 2
... in my case, d2 = 90

[deadlykitten]

[ adjusting C origin, so C zero will reflect an intuitive jaw orientation ]

i consider "intuitive orientation" the position where a jaw is paralel to X axis

in this position, jaw makes a 30 degree angle with a horizontal / sea level

do you like jellyfish ?
do you think human race will extinct it's self ? why ?

1) steps :
... rotate the chuck so a jaw is horizontal
... engage the divizor / C axis
... put the level on that jaw
... adjust C value until level is leveled image 6 shows it
... in that image, jaw is horizontal; i rotated the camera
... index C axis with 30 degrees
... finish the alignment by using a comparator
... set C origin 0 / VSZOC = 0
... parameters > system parameter 2 > C base zero offset
... CALL 0
... using a level speeds up this process

2) final touches :

if changes were done during a setup, please update C origin / C zero

3) achievement : C axis represents an angle between X axis and a jaw this is good, for example, to setup C axis faster when :
... jaws orientation is restricted, so a toolholder will fit between them or,
... milling jaws

[deadlykitten]

[ adjusting spindle orientation zero offset, so M19 will reflect an intuitive jaw orientation ]

i consider "intuitive orientation" a position where a jaw is vertical, because it helps me to avoid some particular things when i use the barr puller

this orientation is achieved ( on a 3 jaws chuck ) when a jaw is paralel to X axis, thus this post will orient the chuck in same position as the previous post of this thread

1) steps, considering stuff from previous post done :
... M110
... M109 - now the chuck should be oriented as desired
... parameters > optional parameter ( other function ) > spindle orientation zero offset
... SET actual CD value, that can be read from the screen ( CD label changes to C when divizor is engages, thus when shifting from S to C mode )
... now CD should be 0

2) final touches :

if changes were done during a setup, please update M19 / M19 C... as required

3) achievements :

a) M19 put the chuck in such a position, that helps avoid these situations when using a bar puller :
... material / barr falling between jaws
... tools from neighbourhood posts may crash into the jaws, because spindle will stop randomly after vrum-vruuum

b) achievment from previous post is available also here : M19 C... represents an angle between X axis and a jaw

c) M18+M19 and M109+M110 will rotate the spindle at identical positions

d) depending on intrinsec directions, "M19 C=V1" and "M110 C=V1" :
... will rotate the spindle with V1, but in opposite directions, or
... will orient the spindle in same position

[deadlykitten]

[ adjusting W origin, so W value will reflect absolute distance, relative to spindle frontal ]
( setup for tailstock )

1) steps :
... set a line inside the tailstock table, so to be able to move it left, as far as possible
... you may use this example :
...... work position = mininum ( W limit on negative travel )
...... reset ± ok distances : |-ok dist|=|+ok dist|=0
...... center hole : 0
...... approach position = work position + 5
...... retract position = maximum ( W limit on positive travel )
...... select that line : G195 SP=...
......... at this point, tailstock may be feed from the wheel pretty close to "negative soft limit", at a distance=|approach-work|
... snap the dial gauge on the jaws, as shown in image 7
... feed the tailstock until 0 is reached on the dial gauge
... system parameter 2 : adjust W origin, so the W value will reflect the sum of :
...... distance between jaw frontal and spindle frontal
...... "real distance" of the "0 dial gauge"
......... CALL 43.5+50 in my case
... send the tailstock home : M55 / M847
... delete the data from the table line, because that line is dangerous
... set up comfortable tailstock values inside the table, and select that line : G195 SP=...

2) final touches :

if an old setup, that includes the tailstock, will be repeated, please be aware that W values are no longer correct

3) achievements : W value represents the distance between live center and spindle frontal ; W and Z origins are identical

[deadlykitten]

[ bonus post 1 : max tool diameters for neighbours, so not to hit the chuck cilinder, when drilling with S axis ]
[ low clerances / close encounters ]

this values are common among toolholders for lb3000ex2 :
... bore height for ID holders : 90
... main arbor height for live holders with 2 axels : 70

max tool diameter for neighbour tools, that raise over the chuck :
... using a 10" chuck :
...... ID holder : o15
...... live holder with 2 axels : o7.5

... using a 8" chuck :
...... ID holder : o59
...... live holder with 2 axels : o51

[deadlykitten]

[ bonus post 2 : y map for lb3000ex2 ]

attached images for XY axis bounder : without tool correction, and for the live holder ( X-40 )

contour_with_correction = contour_without_correction + translation_of_40/2

i guess a lot of this map surface will not be used

[deadlykitten]

... Z origin
... C origin
... spindle orientation zero offset
... W origin

i am not sure, but all this are also called grid_shift ?