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IndustryArena Forum > Tools / Tooling Technology > Manual Machining / Hand Tooling > LATHE - HSS vs Carbide (old school HSS vs modular insert setups)
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  1. #1
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    LATHE - HSS vs Carbide (old school HSS vs modular insert setups)

    Trying to work out if I'm going to set up my new Bolton CQ9332 with carbide inserts or grindable HSS. I've been told here at CNCzone that carbide inserts are for lathes that are more rigid than my imported 9x22 1hp MT5 lathe. Yet, I've seen videos of my exact lathe being used with carbide inserts installed in the stock 4-way toolpost.

    Also, are there QC toolholders (like for the Phase II rigs) made to hold HSS? I think the size I'd need is 1/4 square, right?

    Thanks.

    (Note, obviously I'm new here and I accidently posted this same question in the general metalworking machines forum .. my bad).

  2. #2
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    Answering most of my own questions here on my own. For a hack like myself it seems like HSS is the way to go.

    It seems like the best way to go is using the old standard tool post, like this one ....

    Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies



    I can't seem to locate any of the 1/2 inch shank toolholders to mount in the 4-way toolpost my lathe was fitted with that will work with those grindable HSS cutters. If I am understanding all of this correctly I'll need to use 1/4 inch HSS blanks, grind them to suit, and mount them in the proper tool holder(s), then mount the toolholders in a tool post.

    That said, are there toolholders made to hold 1/4 inch HSS hand ground/hand lapped cutters that would fit in the 4-way tool post on my lathe? And will those fit in a QC toolpost such as one of the Phase II units later when I can afford to buy one later?

    Thank you.

  3. #3
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    Well, looks like I've figured it out on my own here. I still haven't come up with any ideas about how to mount a 1/4 inch HSS cutter in a QC toolpost, but I have taught myself about 5C componentry, which toolpost I guess I'll end up using until I can figure out how to connect HSS and QC, and some methods of adding rigidity to the machine to create better results with (possibly) using Carbide inserts.

    Thanks ... got it covered. No need for replies. It's all much simpler than I anticipated. There's a few websites that really help out the new user when it comes to swimming through the myriad choices in the modern machining accessories marketplace. This was a productive way to spend my only day off this week. I feel like I made a lot of headway.

    Cheers, all.

  4. #4
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    You just use whatever thickness of blocking under the 1/4 tool bit, to bring the cutting edge to center of part. Wasn't going to answer due to getting flamed when I first joined here about tool posts.

    For one off hobby stuff a lantern tool post and HSS tooling is hard to beat. Now making 100's of parts in a CNC is another thing. You will be able to make anything with out a QC tool post, that you can make with one. And most times do it faster. And use the QC money to buy other tooling for the lathe.

    Have fun with the new toy.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by packrat View Post
    You just use whatever thickness of blocking under the 1/4 tool bit, to bring the cutting edge to center of part. Wasn't going to answer due to getting flamed when I first joined here about tool posts.

    For one off hobby stuff a lantern tool post and HSS tooling is hard to beat. Now making 100's of parts in a CNC is another thing. You will be able to make anything with out a QC tool post, that you can make with one. And most times do it faster. And use the QC money to buy other tooling for the lathe.

    Have fun with the new toy.
    Thank you very much for the honest reply. I've been finding it difficult to get help on some of the simplest of things, so I really appreciate the fact that you took 120 seconds of your time to provide me with a little guidance and a brave opinion.

    I'm not tossing sarcasm at you, I'm making a point that it only takes a few minutes to help someone out and that help can many times be an enormous shove forward. I've noticed that there are a nearly obscene amount of subforums here in this place, but I've not been able to locate a subforum for new owners that may have a few stickies that could help to avoid repetitious questions about these basic issues. It seems all too obvious a thing to do. Maybe I just haven't located that subforum yet ... or ... perhaps CNCzone just is not the place for new owners that are starting out with manual bench machines.

    I think anyone that has ever purchased imported machinery knows how lousy the documentation is that acompanies them. That said, the thought of a subforum with stickies that cover basic notions such as line voltage, carbide vs HSS, what 5C tooling is aimed at, how to properly break in a new lathe and or mill, and links to further educational information only seems like a wise and obvious idea. New owners can, many times, turn out to be excellent contributors to the knowledge and experience pool to places like this, once they get up on their feet and the blood starts to flow into the proper parts of their brains.

    Rant complete. Enough of that.

    Thanks for the help, I appreciate you offering your opinions on the issue in the face of possible flamage. I kinda thought the rocker toolpost was the best route to pursue, but I wasn't exactly certain. I feel better about the idea now.

    Cheers .... SV.

  6. #6
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    If you can find any of the South Bend lathe books that Lindsay Publications sold, they are very good for starting out. Even though they are from the 1930 - 1940 era, the basics are still the same.

    There are some Youtube videos too - Southbend's "How to run a lathe" (stabilised) - YouTube

  7. #7
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    Kinda late to the party here....but here's my two cents worth. HSS vs. Carbide. HSS is a cheaper method but the drawbacks kind of negate that. To get repeatable performance you have to learn how to grind proper shape. That is really a lost art. Insertable tooling allows you to just replace worn insert and continue on. With a low horsepower machine you could use a sharper radius insert and take lighter cuts. A quick google of your machine shows that it can spin up to 1600 rpm. That is another plus with using carbide in that you can utilize the machines capabilities. Again, this is all just my opinion. I've seen the snarky replies on this and other forums to legit questions. Having made a living as a machinist with both manual and CNC machines for the past 15 years the self proclaimed know-it -alls make me chuckle.

  8. #8
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    If you are just getting started, I'd also check out the 3/8-1/2" brazed carbide tool bits. They aren't that much more expensive than the HSS bits, they come preground, and offer some of the benefits of carbide. You also can also sharpen the edge with a diamond file or a diamond bit in the dremel to get some more milage out of them. Indexable tooling is nice, but generally you get what you pay for, and it's really easy make a mistake in the insert alphabet soup and buy the wrong thing. Not what you want when you are getting started.
    The one exception is the cutoff tool. I splurged on a nice indexable one a few years ago (this was before you could get a similar one from grizzly) it it was one of the best purchases I have ever made. The HSS ones wander a lot if you dont' grind the geometry correctly, and they aren't that inexpensive to begin with.
    Oh, and you will absolutely not regret getting a quick change tool holder. I'd get 3-4 of the ones that have a V notch at the bottom so you can put a brazed boring bar in there if needed.
    Once you figure out the kind of work you are doing with the lathe, you can purchase tooling that better matches you needs.

    Hope this helps,
    Matt

  9. #9
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    I second the brazed carbide, it's a cheap way to get almost insert quality. You'll want a grinder with a green wheel as well.

    As someone who has blown up several part off blades, you are definitely ahead by buying inserted.

  10. #10
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    I just now stumbled across this thread. To address your most fundamental issue, this may not be the best online forum for you since this one is geared towards CNC machine work. You may get much better feedback on the home shop machinist forum. I won't run the risk of geting this post deleted by providing a link, but if you google home shop machinist you should have no trouble finding it.
    Later,
    Charlie

  11. #11
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    Smile

    Look on line at MSC or ENCO tools and get you a machinist handbook, it has 4000 plus pages of information on drilling and machining using HSS and carbide. the older books from the 60's and 70's told how to grind HSS. it also will give you speed and feed charts for the different metals you plan to machine. also the proper cutting oil to use, I find that WD 40 is very good on aluminum but not on 4140 chrome molly. an oil called KOOL TOOL works very well in my shop for general steel work. If you go with brazed carbide C2 grade is for cast iron and non ferrous metal, C5 is for steel.
    Good luck and happy chipping
    The Farmer

  12. #12
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    Re: LATHE - HSS vs Carbide (old school HSS vs modular insert setups)

    Hi there

    Carbide is much strong, so it has a great tool life and faster cutting data than the current high-speed steel cutting tool or hss. HSS tools coster than Carbide tools.

    DIC TOOLS INDIA

    https://dictoolsindia.com/hss-cuttin...ting-tools.php

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