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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > SmoothStepper Motion Control > Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller
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  1. #1
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    Aug 2021
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    15

    Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller

    Hi

    The title is a bit of a mouth full but I'll explain.

    I've converted an Optimum MH28V mill to CNC and it uses a KBIC copy speed controller for the spindle.

    I read somewhere that using the CNC4PC C6 card would allow me to control the KBIC speed and direction via 0-10V output.

    I've got a voltage output from the C6 card but it is only 0-2.9V

    Does anyone have any experience in this area and any ideas as to how to get the output voltage higher please.

    Cheers
    Phil

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1730

    Re: Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller

    Quote Originally Posted by HighSideNZ View Post
    Hi

    The title is a bit of a mouth full but I'll explain.

    I've converted an Optimum MH28V mill to CNC and it uses a KBIC copy speed controller for the spindle.

    I read somewhere that using the CNC4PC C6 card would allow me to control the KBIC speed and direction via 0-10V output.

    I've got a voltage output from the C6 card but it is only 0-2.9V

    Does anyone have any experience in this area and any ideas as to how to get the output voltage higher please.

    Cheers
    Phil

    The C6 card should work fine. Check the 10V source coming into the card. The card can be configured 0-10v or 0-5v you can get the C6 manual at cnc4pc.com

  3. #3
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    Aug 2021
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    15

    Re: Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller

    Hi
    I have the manual but where do you set the incoming voltage?
    Thanks
    Phil

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    4469

    Re: Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller

    Hi,
    I thought you said you had an MB3....then why are you bothering with the C6??? The MB3 has a 0-10VDC analogue output, and is way more sophisticated than the C6.

    Craig

  5. #5
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    Aug 2021
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    15

    Re: Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller

    The C6 also has connections to control the KBIC speed controller directly and I've used the relays on the MB3 so I've got nothing to Enable the KBIC or control direction.

  6. #6
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    Nov 2013
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    4469

    Re: Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller

    Hi,
    the MB3 has a sophisticated PWM output that derives its own independent power supply from the internal supply of the MB3. It has linearizing and setting circuits.
    You've paid for it why not use it?

    Craig

  7. #7
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    Nov 2013
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    4469

    Re: Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller

    Hi, w
    where abouts in NZ are you?

    I'm in Christchurch.

    Craig

  8. #8
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    Aug 2021
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    15

    Re: Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller

    Hi
    I'm in Auckland
    I've gone down the MB3 PWM route and have it working successfully after some fiddling.
    It will do until I convert to belt drive and servo motor for the spindle.
    I can then look at it more closely/indepth.

    Thanks for all the advice
    Phil

  9. #9
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    Nov 2013
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    4469

    Re: Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller

    Hi,

    I'm in Auckland
    Poor bugger!

    Anyway, good that you have it sorted. Those KBIC controllers are a 'phase controlled bridge' and to be honest are not great. They were considered good back in the day...when I wore short pants
    and dinosaurs roamed, but today not so much.

    I have a second spindle (rather than my primary 800W 24krpm one) based on a second hand 1.8kW 6.1Nm (S1) Allen Bradley AC servo. It is direct coupled rather than belt driven. I use it when cutting steel and want low speed high torque.
    It is superb. I use just a 0-10VDC analog voltage in velocity mode, but its as smooth as can be, and virtually no sag in rpm with load. Great overload torque too. AC servos might be
    expensive (still) but they deliver power so very VERY well. Do not be put off by the cost....you'll fall in love with it the first job you do and to hell with the cost.

    Yesterday I took delivery of a new spindle, 400VAC, 3.5kW (S1), 10krpm (rated) 40krpm (max) with an HSK32 tool interface. Its S1 torque is 3.3Nm, so I'll be able to do a lot more steel work
    with this new spindle before I have to swap to my servo spindle, although I expect the old servo spindle will still get a bit of work now and again.

    I have yet another 3kW, 4krpm re-manufactured servo (Vickers) from the mid 90's. It was always my intention to use it to drive a spindle. It is 12Nm (S1) and 48Nm overload. I am building my own drive....and
    it proven one of those long drawn out projects. I anticipate it will be a belt driven ATC spindle.

  10. #10
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    Aug 2021
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    15

    Re: Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller

    Good looking set up. I like the 4th axis.
    I've got the belt drive gear on it way and the AC servo motor so on with the next phase.
    Phil

    - - - Updated - - -

    Good looking set up. I like the 4th axis.
    I've got the belt drive gear on it way and the AC servo motor so on with the next phase.
    Phil

  11. #11
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    Aug 2021
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    15

    Re: Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller

    Hi
    Good looking set up.
    I've got the bely drive and servo motor on their way so it will be interesting when set up.
    Phil

  12. #12
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    Nov 2013
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    4469

    Re: Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller

    Hi,
    I wanted a gear reducer/gearbox with which to make a fourth axis.

    A genuine fourth axis, even from China, are way too big, too heavy and too expensive......and so were just not suitable for my machine.
    The little hobby fourth axis's are just that, small and flimsy, again not a good match for my machine, even if the cost was right.

    I looked on EBay and found these Atlanta Drive servo reducers. They have two models of interest to us, the 'high performance 58' model which has <2 arc min lash, and the 'high torque 59'
    model which has <1 arc min lash. I bought the '4' size 58 model (63mm between the centre of the worm and the centre of the output gear) new old stock for $130USD. Cost plenty to get it here, but none the less
    is a good and solid piece of gear and the 'right size' for my machine.

    Despite being 'Atlanta Drives' they are made in Germany and they are the sort of quality and rigidity that we have come to expect from German made.

    More recently I wanted another one for a fifth axis and I found a '3' size '59' model (50mm between gear centres) of 6.75:1 reduction, new old stock for $180USD. It too has proven to be very useful
    and the right size and rigidity for my machine at a price I could afford.

    This is an example of one I found on Ebay this morning.

    Craig

  13. #13
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    Nov 2013
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    4469

    Re: Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller

    Hi,
    the only problem with the part as is .........is that its in the US, and it will cost a bomb to get it to New Zealand.

    The part I linked to is identical to my fourth axis gear reducer and it weighs 10kg....and that will cost plenty.

    In recent times I have been using Youshop, a service offered and run by NZPost. They in effect give you a mailbox in the US, Portland Oregon to be precise.
    If you purchase a US product then get them (US supplier) to ship it to Oregon, its as cheap as chips. Even from Texas say a 7kg item costs $14.99USD to get it to Oregon,
    and it takes only a couple of days. I have literally done this in the last week. Shipping within the US is fast and cheap. International shipping and the Yanks throw their hands
    and don't know what to do. Ergo the Youshop service.

    Once the parcel gets to Oregon the NZPost let you know the GST on the item, you have to provide the proof of purchase, but also the cost of shipping to NZ. It's not cheap.
    The same 7kg package I referred to above cost $186NZD (GST inclusive) for shipping alone. That works out to $26.60NZD/kg. Thereafter they send it to San Fransisco and wait
    for a plane with excess capacity going to NZ. Usually two-three days.

    Note that NZPost also collect GST on the item, a tariff classification fee if applicable and any duty that might apply on behalf of NZ Customs. All-in-all its not cheap but clean and easy and everything above board.

    The good news is that given NZPost have done the paperwork, and I believe they open every parcel to confirm its contents, then NZ Customs pretty much rubber stamps it and through it goes.

    So just before you get your hopes up for a gear reducer for only $98.20USD, just be aware that the shipping alone is going to be about $270NZD.

    The last Atalanta Drive gear reducer I bought cost $180USD, new old stock. By the time I paid for it, the GST on it, the Customs fees and the shipping it cost $610NZD on my doorstep.
    I still call that good value for money, but you need your eyes wide open or it will cost you much more than you think!

    Craig

  14. #14
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    Aug 2021
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    15

    Re: Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller

    I was thinking of converting my manual rotary table but I'm not sure I can get a low enough backlash reading.
    I used to use YouShop before lock down but now it is too expensive.

    Good find on the drives.

    Phil

  15. #15
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    Nov 2013
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    4469

    Re: Mach4, ESS\MB3 combo controlling CNC4PC C6 connecting to KBIC speed controller

    Hi,
    how do you define 'too expensive'.

    I gotten servos from China, about 8kg with both Fedex and DHL for $156USD and $160USD respectively. I've just paid $186NZD or only about $112USD for a 7kg parcel from Oregon , a service offered by Youshop.
    Sure, its not chea, but comparing it to Fedex and DHL neither is it 'too expensive'.

    Craig

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