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IndustryArena Forum > Machine Controllers Software and Solutions > Fanuc > Mori-Seiki , Fanuc 6M diagnostic question
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  1. #1
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    Mori-Seiki , Fanuc 6M diagnostic question

    ! buddy of mine told me long ago that one of the worst things for a CNC is to sit "OFF" for a length of time. Boy, no kidding! Our shop is in the process of moving, so this 1984 Mori - Seiki MV35/35 of ours sat for over 4 weeks without any attention. Long story short. (ok long) Fired it up, gave it a long warm-up cycle (about 2 hrs). Upon 1st tool change, boy red flags flyin', things seemed 3/4 speed. Stalled 1/2 way though. Had to reset. If you know these controls, it goes something like this (mechanical side): move arm and pocket back manually using hydraulic actuation, and then (brain side): flip the parameter switch in the side on the main board, set N3004 (this particular machine) bits to all 0's (returns machine to a ATC complete condition), and she's good to go!

    Well, that worked, the first time. The second time things got a little more complex (that's where you folks come in).

    @ the 2nd tool change attempt, it got a little farther. Double arm to tool, then nothing. Alarm light 2 and 3 on. OK - back through the normal stuff. Not working. Bummer! I spent all day checking though every condition. I found a cracked spring in one of the double arms grip interlocks. I found a loose nut on the top of the machine that keeps the arm from going down in "a not suppose to be down rotation". I found the arm up sensor out of adjustment (at this same location). And found the arm down sensor in contact in the down position.

    So. Got the alarms off. But the diagnostic bits say both the arm up and the arm down sensors are on. I believe this to be the final interlock that is keeping the machine from coming back to life.

    The arm down sensor seems to be the culpret. How do I set that to a off condition?

    ANY input, suggestions, comments, ridicule, will be put right to use! I've been here (slept in shop)(ewe), since 6:30 am.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    adding a little to the information ( I have nothing better to do since I'm staying at the shop one more night). The Diagnostic #48 should be 10011010 and its 10011011 . Witch means the arm upfin and the arm downfin are both on. Where do I find the info to change that bit zero to a 0?

  3. #3
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    That diagnostic bit is just telling you that a certain +24v input signal is on. You can't turn it off through the keyboard.

    Your control has 2 "Input unit" boards, which are the I/O boards for all the +24v signals to the machine. There are 4 50-pin Honda connectors on the bottom edge of each board. One of those connectors should be marked "C22", and pin 28 on that connector is your signal (probably from that malfunctioning "arm down" sensor). I'd guess that the sensor has gone bad. It's very unlikely that the board has a bad input. Can you measure the voltage coming from the sensor? Is it a simple switch, or is it a magnetic sensor of some kind? I'm sure that Mori stocks them.

  4. #4
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    Thanks Dan,

    Yep. I was leaning towards the sensor myself. It's a proximity type. The up sensor flashes a 1 on the screen (and error 3 lamp coms on), when I put something metal (like a small allen wrench) between the sensor and the metal flange it comes close too. The down sensor gives no reaction what so ever, on the screen or error lamp. I tried this with the tool clamp and unclamp sensors and got positive, or the same results (1's & error 3 lamps).

    Do you call Mori directly? Or do you go through a service dealer, like say Ellision? Or Do you have a number I can call that can get me this sensor overnighted (weekends excluded, of course)?

    Thanks again,
    Steve

  5. #5
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    There are alot of manufacturers of Proximity switches, it is not always good to be held hostage to the OEM prices.
    Generally most machines are 24vdc type, apart from the physical size, you would need to find if 3 wire or 2 wire, sink or source (NPN/PNP).
    If you have a number, I may be able to sub it.
    Sources are DigiKey (overnight), Newark, Mouser etc.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  6. #6
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    Thanks Al,

    It's a three wire, rectangle (on its side), measures 1.950 long x .67 deep x .75 tall with a .45 round solid button sensor (no movement) off center on top. holes are through the center and are spaced 1" apart. The part # was blurrey, so I took off the up side one to get it (should be the same). Part # 2FS5895-901 and below that is a smaller # 12 - 83S and on top (by the round sensor) "MICRO, yamatake-honeywell, japan" if that helps. Say, that print is mighty small this time of the morning!
    Thanks again for your help!
    Steve

  7. #7
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    That is a good number, just that it comes up obsolete, and no cross ref.
    If you have a problem getting an exact one you may have to sub it, possibly it will be slightly different phyisically.
    You need to identify, either from a print or by checking if it has 2 wire or 3 wire, what the voltage is and either the nature of the inputs sink or source, OR wether the Prox is NPN or PNP, which is usually easier to determine from the type of output on the print.
    Some easily availabe makes are Omron, Balluff and Turk, as well as later models of Honeywell.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  8. #8
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    Thanks Al,

    Got some rest and then got back on it. Since I had both sencors as equals, I tested them and the numbers came out the same. So I followed the leads to a handy little bus bar that had good numbers. Transfered to the back of the machine and found the same #'s on the long bus bar there (all together, how nice), I swaped the two L24 and L25 so the screen should show different 1's and 0's on power up. Sure enough! And they both work! ??? Now thats good info. I think. It may mean the ARM is not reaching it's position sensor before returning up. That would explain the alarm. I will investigate this farther.

  9. #9
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    Smile

    Well, the Tech is on his way. Machine has stumped me for too long. Machine still in a interlock condition (will not move in Z axis). I had my hopes up for a little bit on Sunday, with sensors disconected (actually only un-mounted), the machine came on with no errors and out of interlock. So I shut it back down, remounted the sensors and when I powered it back up, it was in interlock and the allarms were back on.
    Cant afford to be down any longer, pre-ordered a Mori-Seiki sensor (which the tech stocks and wont charge me for if he doesnt use it). Other machines are crunching ours to make up for this ones down time.
    Will keep you posted, this machine has paid for it's self MANY times over so I guess it's not that bad(nuts) (nuts)
    Thanks again.
    Steve

  10. #10
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    Back up and running!

    Turns out the sensor was internitent (ok, bad). Richard Limbeck @ CNC Machine Service, Inc (Snohomish, WA) is a real wiz when it comes to servicing older equipment !!! The broken spring I found on the tool changer arm had another one just like it on the other end and hey, it was broken and worn out too. All I could think of is "this one must have gone through just as many tool changes." AND "here's your sign!"

    This was causing the arm to move just far away enough from the arm up sensor to alarm out the machine.

    If anyone needs CNC service in Washington call them and ask for Richard (425) - 788 - 4500

    Thanks again

  11. #11
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    Unhappy Mori Seiki MV-35 manuals.

    I could really use a set of manuals for this machine. I recently bought one used and am having similar problems. With the partial copies of the manuals that I got with it, it's been all hit and miss.

  12. #12
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    Re: Mori Seiki MV-35 manuals.

    Nan I shave this manuals, I have the same problem

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