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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Knee Vertical Mills > NEED ADVICE re: Enshu Yuasa AccuMill 1547 with Fanuc 3M
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  1. #1
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    NEED ADVICE re: Enshu Yuasa AccuMill 1547 with Fanuc 3M

    I purchased an Enshu Yuasa AccuMill 1547 with tool changer about eight years ago. This is my mill:




    I am a good machinist, but not too good with computers. The mill was purchased in "running condition" and I saw it do a few things while it was still under power at the machinery dealer from whom I purchased it. I was sure that I would be able to figure it out.

    But I never did. I understand the concept of G-code, and compiling a program, but I was never able to figure out how to get a PC hooked up to it, or download programs, or write programs at the pendant, or execute a program.

    Then I moved and the mill went into storage for about five years. I have recently gotten it out of storage, and it no longer powers up. I am about 98% sure that it is the power supply board, and I have a line on another one. But if I get it powering up again, I will be in the same boat I was in earlier, of not being able to run it.

    I have new motivation to figure it out. I also have access to forums like this one, which did not exist eight years ago.

    I would REALLY LIKE to hear from anyone who is running this mill, or maybe other knee mills with the Fanuc 3M, and hear about how difficult it is.

    I would even consider flying someone out to New Mexico for a few days, and putting them up, if there was someone out there who A) thinks they could help me get it running and B) needs a vacation.

    I welcome any feedback, and would love to hear from folks who know about this mill and/or this controller.

    Thanks a lot,
    Christian

  2. #2
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    re; enshu 3m

    hi im al i have the same mill im 48 years old & have had it sinse i was 18 years old any questions ican answer IL TRY . im in valencia ca. phone # 661-257-9494 AL STEFANI

  3. #3
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    Wow, thanks for replying, Al. You are the first person to reply.

    I recently replaced the main power supply board, and got it to power up, but I am now having an error message (I can't remember what it is right now) which is prohibiting the machine from doing anything. And I can't seem to get out of it. I think it might be a problem with the power I am feeding it. I live in a rural area and the power coming in from the local utility really sucks. It's unstable and usually too high. I think this might be the issue.

    So, I don't really have any particular questions yet, as I can't really even get the thing up and running yet.

    I've got friends telling me to scrap the Fanuc 3M and just get a Centroid replacement control, but I do not have an extra $4K lying around. So I want to try my best to get it running as it is.

    Thanks again for the reply.

    Christian

  4. #4
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    ENSHU ACCUMILL AM 1547 3M

    FIRST , THIER IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE CONTROL OR MACH. IT IS BULLET PROOF !!!! NEVER HAD A SERVICE CALL ON MINE . U NEED TO CONTACT ME BY PHONE , I CAN HELP!!!!! AL IN CA. 661-257-9494 WHEN I ANSWER JUST SAY FANUC 3M ENSHU , I WOUNT THINK U R A SOLICTOR & HANG UP.:cheers::cheers::cheers:

  5. #5
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crobox View Post
    Then I moved and the mill went into storage for about five years. I have recently gotten it out of storage, and it no longer powers up.
    Christian
    The early Fanuc's required correct phase rotation, if this is wrong it won't power up, reverse two phases and see if that corrects it.
    Al.
    ______________
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by alstefco View Post
    FIRST , THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE CONTROL OR MACH. IT IS BULLET PROOF !!!!
    Oh, I really want to believe that... but I have never had anything but problems with this machine. I have had so many alarms and over-travels and power supply problems that I have never even gotten it to run.

    It is currently stuck with this over-load alarm:


    I thought maybe it was a problem with the power being too high, so I switched the input power from one of my phase converters (which puts out 257VAC, 244VAC, and 235VAC) to my other phase converter (which puts out 239VAC, 214VAC, and 207VAC), and that did not make a difference.

    I have swapped legs of the various input phases and that does not make a difference.

    I have held down "QP" and "CAN" on startup, as the manuals suggest, and that does not make a difference.

    Not too long ago it was also giving me an "Over-travel Y (+)" alarm, and the table was in fact so far in the +Y direction that the over-travel switch was tripped. Because I cannot get the machine to do anything on its own, I removed the cover-plate on the knee enough to get a wrench in there and manually turn the nut on the Y servomotor and move the table off the overtravel switch. However, on startup I am still getting the +Y overtravel alarm, even though the switch is no longer tripped. I CAN make this alarm go away, however, by holding "QP" and "CAN" on startup.

    But I definitely cannot get it out of the servo over-load alarm state.

    Al, I will call you and see if you've got any ideas. When is a good time to call?
    Of course anyone else is welcome to chime in.

    Thanks,
    Christian

  7. #7
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    ENSHU ACCUMILL 1547

    CROBOX, CALL ME ANYTIME. JUST FIRED UP MY ENSHU ITS BEEN ABOUT 2 YEARS IM A LITTLE RUSTY.

  8. #8
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    The manual refers to the thermal relay in the motor, or if it has, in the transformer feeding the servo's or in the servo regen resistor bank.
    These are usually a small thermal switch imbeded on the side of the motor, transformer or regen resistor bank.
    They are normally installed to detect overheating (current) but if it shows with no motor moving, then it can be the device itself or even an open connection.
    You really need the electrical prints to trace each or detect if it actually has all or any of them.
    Also check any thermal O.L.'s on the drives.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

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    Thanks for the reply.

    I just spent some time in the shop with the machine and looking over the manual.

    I must have a different manual than yours, as mine says nothing about thermal switches on the motors, transformer, or regen resistor bank. I went ahead and looked for any such switches anyway, but could find none. Certainly none on the motors (I assume you are speaking of the individual servo-motors, not the main spindle motor) or on the transformer. I don't know what a regen resistor bank is, but I don't see anything in the cabinet that looks like such a thing, nor can I find any mention of it in the manual. There are thermal relays and associated reset buttons on the velocity control units, but they are not tripped. I have hit the trip and reset buttons multiple times anyway, just for good measure.

    I removed the various cover plates necessary to move all three servo-motors by hand, and none of them are stuck or anything like that. In fact they all look pretty good. They are Fanuc Type 0 motors.

    At one point today the machine was doing some strange stuff on startup, which consisted of "blipping" closed all three magnetic contactors on the three velocity control units simultaneously, then coming up with "Servo Alarm 02 (VRDY OFF)" in addition to the over-load alarm. Then, on the next few startups, the contactors would all close, but would not open again, and the X-axis servo-motor would sound like it was in a stall (bad, straining electrical sound). I shut it off when this happened, except for once, when I let it stay in that straining mode until the middle fuse on the X-axis velocity control unit blew. Then I replaced the fuse, and the whole situtation resolved itself back to the basic state that it is currently in, which is the same old "stuck in servo overload alarm state."

    The possible causes listed in my manual are:
    1) Heavy motor load. I don't think that is the cause, as the machine will not work.
    2) Thermal relay setting error. I messed around with the knob which surrounds the reset button, to no avail.
    3) Overheated transformer. No, the transformer is cold. Again, I cannot find a thermal reset button on the transformer, and my manual does not indicate that such a button exists.
    4) Faulty velocity control unit or master PCB position controller. I guess this could be the problem. Not sure how to check this. Also not sure what the PCB position controller is.
    5) Poor overload signal line connection. Could be the problem.... I will have to spend some time with the manual to try to determine which connection that is.
    6) Abnormal power supply voltage. Except they don't say what it is supposed to be. With some tinkering I could probably figure this out and check it.

    So, I am still stumped, and the machine is still stuck.

    Christian

  10. #10
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    The thermal detectors, if fitted are usually mounted inside the motors and have two leads coming off them and usually exit the motor in the MS connector or term. strip, as the case maybe.
    If they are the cause when everything is cold or at start up, it is usually because of open circuit on one somewhere.
    Also, depending on the size of your servo drives, when a 3phase input fuse blows there is usually a small flag fuse wired in parallel, when the main fuse blows, the 5amp flag fuse blows so both have to be replaced.
    They are small black rectangle fuses with a circular window that shows a white flag in it if blown.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    The thermal detectors, if fitted are usually mounted inside the motors and have two leads coming off them and usually exit the motor in the MS connector or term. strip, as the case maybe.
    OK. What is the MS connector? I've got two connectors to each motor, one 4-pin (of which only three pins are used) which seems to be power from the VCU to the servomotor, and another connector with 12-15 pins, which seems to come from the encoder.
    I did open the back end of one motor, but I did not see anything like a thermal switch. Also the manual does not mention them.
    I will look again, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    Also, depending on the size of your servo drives, when a 3phase input fuse blows there is usually a small flag fuse wired in parallel, when the main fuse blows, the 5amp flag fuse blows so both have to be replaced.
    They are small black rectangle fuses with a circular window that shows a white flag in it if blown.
    Al.
    And yes, the little rectangular fuse with the white flag did blow, and I did see something in the manual about those fuses being parallel with some other fuses, but it was not clear to me where those other fuses are located. Any help?
    I will look again.

    Thanks,
    Christian

  12. #12
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    The smaller drives only had flag fuses which did double duty as main fuse AND alarm, the larger capacity had a large 3 phase fuse bank as well at the top of the drive, each fuse being in parallel with one each flag fuse.
    MS connector is a multipin for the encoder and thermal switch, you cannot see the switch without opening up the motor, but testing across the pins for it, you can check continuity.
    It should show shorted, open for fault.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

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    OK, so the VCUs which have the parallel fuses setup are in fact for later model (larger?) motors, (motor models 10, 20, and 30). My motors are model 0, which makes sense since I could not find the secondary set of fuses. Also, my little rectangular "flag" fuses are 15 amp.

    I found what appears to be a pin-out diagram for the MS connector, but most of the names they give to the various pins don't mean much to me, and are not explained. Do any of these sound like they could be connected to a thermal switch? (This is for motor X)

    A: PCAX
    B: PCBX
    C: +5V
    D: *PCAX
    E: *PCBX
    F: PCZX
    G: *PCZX
    H: OG
    J: +5V
    K: +5V
    L:
    M:
    N: OV
    P: OV
    R: OH1X
    S: OH2X
    T: OV

    Again, no explanation for what these are. Any clue?

    Thanks,
    Christian

  14. #14
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    A: PCAX = A pulse
    B: PCBX = B pulse
    C: +5V = Supply
    D: *PCAX = A pulse complement
    E: *PCBX = B " "
    F: PCZX = Marker pulse
    G: *PCZX = Marker compl.
    H: OG = shield
    J: +5V
    K: +5V
    L:
    M:
    N: OV
    P: OV
    R: OH1X = Thermal switch 1
    S: OH2X = Thermal switch 2
    T: OV

    R & S are the thermal sensor.

    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  15. #15
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    Fanuc 3M

    Christian,

    Any 3M that has been in storage surely must have a dead parameter battery. While the blown fuses need to be changed (and could have been caused by reversed phasing), I haven't seen any mention of the parameters. Do you have a good list?

    This is still a good control. It has limited part program memory, but is capable of running programs loaded via the RS-232 port.

    Warren
    www.uptimecorp.com

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by WGoyer View Post
    Any 3M that has been in storage surely must have a dead parameter battery. While the blown fuses need to be changed (and could have been caused by reversed phasing), I haven't seen any mention of the parameters. Do you have a good list?
    OK, thanks. The battery certainly does show signs of being dead. But would that cause the kinds of problems that I am having with the servo overload alarm?

    I checked the thermal switch leads on all three motors, and all of them show shorted (normal). I checked at the motor connector, and I also checked at the Honda connector at the main control board. All good.

    Here is a picture of one of the VCUs:


    You can see that I am substituting automotive style fuses for the flag fuses. Any reason not to do this? I am not having any associated problems yet.

    Above the fuses you can see four terminals.... three of these are the input voltage to the VCU. I am getting 29.4 VAC, 35.4 VAC, and 31.1 VAC, between each terminal and ground, consistently across all three VCUs. Anyone see any problem with that?

    Thanks,
    Christian

  17. #17
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Do not use a substitute in that way, that is probably where your fault is!!
    It is not only a fuse but has an alarm contact back to the controller.
    All you are doing is making the fuse, but the alarm is still there.
    The flag fuses can be repaired by taking the cover off and using a copper strand from a power cord etc that will handle the current.
    The strand is soldered in place while pulling the alarm contact on.
    The fuse should have three connections on the bottom. one is for the alarm signal.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

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    OK, thanks Al. I understand.

    However, when I started messing around with the machine a few weeks ago, all my fuses were intact! So I am doubtful that's the problem. And the fuses keep on blowing.

    I will repair the old ones... but I really doubt it's going to fix the fault.

    Will update.

    Thanks,
    Christian

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    Also, after inspecting one of these fuses, I've observed that the "signal" blade of the fuse (the third blade) functions as a switch, and is in the open state when the fuse is in good condition. This is the same as if the third blade were simply absent.
    Right?

    Christian

  20. #20
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crobox View Post
    This is the same as if the third blade were simply absent.
    Right?

    Christian
    Yes I believe so.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

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