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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Spindles / VFD > Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps
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  1. #1

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    Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    3.2kw Jianken 4 pole and Fuling 5.5kw Vfd. Details are in my other thread.

    I have a 2.2kw non atc spindle (220v 1 phase, 2 pole,24k) barely running with the Fuling Vfd .

    problems:

    1) It seems to run ok in vf mode, but a little wierd in svc.
    2) running from the keypad only, no jog, not speed change with pot, only by changing H value.
    3) as per another thread, changing motor parameters causes other to change, but tuning is locked out

    I would like to get at least the freq changing solved before going much further.

    What is the best way to upload my parameters, or is there a generic cheat sheet circulating around here?


    Also, I am thinking of putting the vfd in a steel enclosure but I would have to take the keypad out of the plastic enclosure and mount it elsewhere.

    I have a steel enclosure with fan, filters, etc that might keep the vfd happy, dust, oil, flood coolant free.

    Any thoughts on this?

    thanks in advance.

  2. #2

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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Subscribing

  3. #3
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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Quote Originally Posted by rjwims View Post
    3.2kw Jianken 4 pole and Fuling 5.5kw Vfd. Details are in my other thread.

    I have a 2.2kw non atc spindle (220v 1 phase, 2 pole,24k) barely running with the Fuling Vfd .

    problems:

    1) It seems to run ok in vf mode, but a little wierd in svc.
    2) running from the keypad only, no jog, not speed change with pot, only by changing H value.
    3) as per another thread, changing motor parameters causes other to change, but tuning is locked out

    I would like to get at least the freq changing solved before going much further.

    What is the best way to upload my parameters, or is there a generic cheat sheet circulating around here?


    Also, I am thinking of putting the vfd in a steel enclosure but I would have to take the keypad out of the plastic enclosure and mount it elsewhere.

    I have a steel enclosure with fan, filters, etc that might keep the vfd happy, dust, oil, flood coolant free.

    Any thoughts on this?

    thanks in advance.
    You can only use V/F mode, you must have the main Parameters set correct, not much to set, to get these spindles running.

    Fuling VFD
    220v 2.2Kw
    F0.00=1 ( V/F Control Vector Control=0 )

    F0.01=0 ( 0 For KeyPad )

    F0.03=0 ( KeyPad )

    F0.04=400

    F0.05=400

    F0.06=100

    F0.07=400

    F0.08=8 ( Acceleration Adjustable )

    F0.09=8 (Deceleration Adjustable )

    F0.11=8 ( Carrier Frequency 10 Max )

    F015=10 ( Start Frequency )

    F0.16=5

    F1.00= ( Model 0 or 1 )

    F1.01= 2.2 ( Motor Kw )

    F1.02=400 ( Motor Frequency )

    F1.03=24000 ( Motor Max RPM )

    F1.04=220 ( Motor Voltage )

    F1.05=8.5 ( Motor Amps )

    F1.19=110

    F5.06=110

    After all Parameters are set Correct you can try and do Auto Tune, this does not normally work in V/F mode, so just for the Auto Tune set to SVC F0.00=1, after it has done the Auto Tune set Parameter F0.00=0 for V/F mode.

    Auto Tune Parameter F1.11=0 ( Press Start and it may Auto Tune )( After Auto Tune is complete Press Reset on KeyPad ) Then if all is well your spindle should be running from the KeyPad, Don't forget to reset Parameter F0.00=0
    Mactec54

  4. #4

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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Thanks Man.

    I was just working on a spreadsheet for this.

    If I get this right, will the on board pot control freq?

    I'll be on this as soon as I get my stuff into the new enclosure.

    thanks again

    edit:

    Should I do a reset on the vfd before hand ?

  5. #5
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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Quote Originally Posted by rjwims View Post
    Thanks Man.

    I was just working on a spreadsheet for this.

    If I get this right, will the on board pot control freq?

    I'll be on this as soon as I get my stuff into the new enclosure.

    thanks again

    edit:

    Should I do a reset on the vfd before hand ?
    No Rest unless you have made changes to other Parameters.

    What VFD Drive model do you have you may need some different Parameters for Pot use.
    Mactec54

  6. #6

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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK

    Short history...

    I bought a rattmotor 2.2w, 220v 1 phase kit with HY (clone) Vfd . I set it up using a cheat sheet from vendor and it ran, but no speed change using pot and no jog

    I swapped in the Fuling and using same cheat sheet parameters, it ran, but again no jog or pot speed control.

    Other than some keyboard related parameters and switching between VF to SVC , nothing else was changed.

    oops! I did change carrier freq. to 10

    I ran the 2.2kw with hy vfd to break in the motor. current was under 2 amps

    same motor with Fuling and c freq of 10 and autotune ran at 3.4 amps at 9k and 3.1 at 20k

    cheat sheet attached.

    Would it hurt to do a reset before continuing. Perhaps some other p's were changed before I started with this Vfd ??

    Thanks
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails rattinverter.jpg  

  7. #7
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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Quote Originally Posted by rjwims View Post
    Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK

    Short history...

    I bought a rattmotor 2.2w, 220v 1 phase kit with HY (clone) Vfd . I set it up using a cheat sheet from vendor and it ran, but no speed change using pot and no jog

    I swapped in the Fuling and using same cheat sheet parameters, it ran, but again no jog or pot speed control.

    Other than some keyboard related parameters and switching between VF to SVC , nothing else was changed.

    oops! I did change carrier freq. to 10

    I ran the 2.2kw with hy vfd to break in the motor. current was under 2 amps

    same motor with Fuling and c freq of 10 and autotune ran at 3.4 amps at 9k and 3.1 at 20k

    cheat sheet attached.

    Would it hurt to do a reset before continuing. Perhaps some other p's were changed before I started with this Vfd ??

    Thanks
    You can't measure the output with a regular meter, you will get a false reading. If you were reading from the Key Pad then that is Amps per Phase.

    It looks like they copied one of my posted Parameter lists, and messed it up some, and that is why the pot would not work.

    So, what VFD Drive are you using now, as they both have different Parameter settings.
    Mactec54

  8. #8

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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    You can't measure the output with a regular meter, you will get a false reading. If you were reading from the Key Pad then that is Amps per Phase.

    It looks like they copied one of my posted Parameter lists, and messed it up some, and that is why the pot would not work.

    So, what VFD Drive are you using now, as they both have different Parameter settings.

    Amps are from display and per phase

    I am ONLY using the Fuling VFD

    Once pot/jog work, I will proceed to interfacing with my cnc control. (E stop, Thermal, atc lockout till zero freq, etc)

    Then, dump the 2.2kw and install the Jianken 3.2kw atc spindle

  9. #9
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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Quote Originally Posted by rjwims View Post
    Amps are from display and per phase

    I am ONLY using the Fuling VFD

    Once pot/jog work, I will proceed to interfacing with my cnc control. (E stop, Thermal, atc lockout till zero freq, etc)

    Then, dump the 2.2kw and install the Jianken 3.2kw atc spindle
    The amps are what is to be expected on the Fuling the lower the RPM the higher the Amps will be, so this is correct.

    You should never use jog with these types of spindles, so cross that off the list.

    Do you have the PDF file of your VFD Drive.
    Mactec54

  10. #10

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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    I just wanted to be sure about the amps. Curious that same rpm, same motor, that amps per phase was so different??

    No jog = no biggie...thanks for that, one less problem to solve.

    Yes, I found 3 pdf's in English, different names, but same file. Plus a nice looking booklet came with the drive, but ALL in Chinese....lol.

    If anyone has a full page per sheet copy, please help!!

    My old eyses can't handle to 2 pages per sheet small print

    Tia

  11. #11
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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Quote Originally Posted by rjwims View Post
    I just wanted to be sure about the amps. Curious that same rpm, same motor, that amps per phase was so different??

    No jog = no biggie...thanks for that, one less problem to solve.

    Yes, I found 3 pdf's in English, different names, but same file. Plus a nice looking booklet came with the drive, but ALL in Chinese....lol.

    If anyone has a full page per sheet copy, please help!!

    My old eyses can't handle to 2 pages per sheet small print

    Tia
    It is important that when you buy something like this, you get a Factory PDF manual or a manual ( hard copy ) in English.

    Where you using the same input power supply to the VFD Drive???

    IF you calculate the Amps for the 2.2Kw spindle the Fuling output was correct for that size spindle.

    Is the Fuling VFD Drive a 2.2Kw or the same KW as the HY VFD Drive???
    Mactec54

  12. #12

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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    It is important that when you buy something like this, you get a Factory PDF manual or a manual ( hard copy ) in English.

    Where you using the same input power supply to the VFD Drive???

    IF you calculate the Amps for the 2.2Kw spindle the Fuling output was correct for that size spindle.

    Is the Fuling VFD Drive a 2.2Kw or the same KW as the HY VFD Drive???
    Same 40 amp 1 phase 240v service.

    The 2.2kw came as a kit motor and 2.2kw VFD...link below

    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    I only used the kit for testing and motor breakin. I want to send it all back

    So far I swapped out the hw for the Fuling,

    Plan of action:

    1) Again, I need help getting the pot working for speed adjustment.

    2) Then onto safety and control from my cnc.

    3) when all that is solved, I will move on to swapping in the 3.2 kw ATC spindle

    notes:

    I did get an English manual for the 2.2 kit before I bought it, but the print is too small for my old eyes.

  13. #13
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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Quote Originally Posted by rjwims View Post
    Same 40 amp 1 phase 240v service.

    The 2.2kw came as a kit motor and 2.2kw VFD...link below

    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    I only used the kit for testing and motor breakin. I want to send it all back

    So far I swapped out the hw for the Fuling,

    Plan of action:

    1) Again, I need help getting the pot working for speed adjustment.

    2) Then onto safety and control from my cnc.

    3) when all that is solved, I will move on to swapping in the 3.2 kw ATC spindle

    notes:

    I did get an English manual for the 2.2 kit before I bought it, but the print is too small for my old eyes.
    There are plenty of manuals for the HY VFD Drives, but the Fuling 312 is not anywhere to be found, I have the manuals for the Fuling 100 / 200/ 300/ 600 series there are some things that are different with the 312 that is not listed in the 300 series the Pot being one of them

    The Amazon advertisement is incorrect, it has in the spec's 0-24,000, then it goes on to say it can't be run below 9,000, which is also incorrect, 6,000 RPM is the minimum speed for these water-cooled spindles, the list of Parameters is missing many important Parameters, so it is no wonder it would not run at the same amp output, if you only used what is listed.

    It's also is quite alarming, that it states the 4th Pin is not connected, this is required to be connected, to Ground the spindle, you can't use one of these spindles unless it is Grounded.

    The correct 4 wire Shielded Cable is required from the VFD Drive to the Spindle.

    You can try this for the Pot control F0.03=1 if this does not work leave set at ( 1 ) and set Parameter F2.08=400 and then try again.
    Mactec54

  14. #14

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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    There are plenty of manuals for the HY VFD Drives, but the Fuling 312 is not anywhere to be found, I have the manuals for the Fuling 100 / 200/ 300/ 600 series there are some things that are different with the 312 that is not listed in the 300 series the Pot being one of them

    The Amazon advertisement is incorrect, it has in the spec's 0-24,000, then it goes on to say it can't be run below 9,000, which is also incorrect, 6,000 RPM is the minimum speed for these water-cooled spindles, the list of Parameters is missing many important Parameters, so it is no wonder it would not run at the same amp output, if you only used what is listed.

    It's also is quite alarming, that it states the 4th Pin is not connected, this is required to be connected, to Ground the spindle, you can't use one of these spindles unless it is Grounded.

    The correct 4 wire Shielded Cable is required from the VFD Drive to the Spindle.

    You can try this for the Pot control F0.03=1 if this does not work leave set at ( 1 ) and set Parameter F2.08=400 and then try again.
    The 4th pin however had zero resistance to ground and I did ground the 4th pin anyway. Also the 220v 50hz water pump came with an adaptor for use in the USA, but that caused the pump to run at 110 volts and basically pump almost nothing.

    I made a cable and ran it at 220v and it was ok.

    The non grounding stupidity warning, pump bs, and my desire to have an atc spindle made me decide to return the whole kit.

    So I will use the 2.2kw motor until I get the Fuling right and then send the rat crap back.

    I want the Fuling working properly before I hook up my almost 2k atc spindle.

    If I mess up and let some smoke out, better that it comes from the ratmotor spindle...lol

    In the meantime,

    I'm making a big deal out of my enclosure project and waiting on a panel mount ammeter/voltmeter and inlet power filter, but that part of the project is looking good so far.

    I will report back once I'm back up and running

    thanks again

  15. #15
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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Quote Originally Posted by rjwims View Post
    The 4th pin however had zero resistance to ground and I did ground the 4th pin anyway. Also the 220v 50hz water pump came with an adaptor for use in the USA, but that caused the pump to run at 110 volts and basically pump almost nothing.

    I made a cable and ran it at 220v and it was ok.

    The non grounding stupidity warning, pump bs, and my desire to have an atc spindle made me decide to return the whole kit.

    So I will use the 2.2kw motor until I get the Fuling right and then send the rat crap back.

    I want the Fuling working properly before I hook up my almost 2k atc spindle.

    If I mess up and let some smoke out, better that it comes from the ratmotor spindle...lol

    In the meantime,

    I'm making a big deal out of my enclosure project and waiting on a panel mount ammeter/voltmeter and inlet power filter, but that part of the project is looking good so far.

    I will report back once I'm back up and running

    thanks again
    The non-Grounding is normal in China, it's called Population control.

    With no reading on the Ground Pin means you have to remove the top of the Spindle and connect it inside; this is very normal to have to do this, with most of these spindles, if you are sending it back then not much point in connecting it, just don't touch the spindle when it is power up.

    Did I give you an EMI Filter spec, to get for this? not all are created equal. ammeter / voltmeter is yes also quite pointless, for your installation.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ground Wire -2.jpg  
    Mactec54

  16. #16

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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    As I stated in my previous post, The ground pin had continuity with the spindle case, and I grounded it to the Vfd anyway.

    I've been digging around and found some threads, including one where you were discussing emi, etc. So Yes I ordered the Tdk-lambda RSEN-2030L

    Also the ammeter was cheap and 200ms response time seemed decent ?

    Or did I miss the whole point of that thread? .5 to .6 efficiency seems like a giant waste of electricity

  17. #17
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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Quote Originally Posted by rjwims View Post
    As I stated in my previous post, The ground pin had continuity with the spindle case, and I grounded it to the Vfd anyway.

    I've been digging around and found some threads, including one where you were discussing emi, etc. So Yes I ordered the Tdk-lambda RSEN-2030L

    Also the ammeter was cheap and 200ms response time seemed decent ?

    Or did I miss the whole point of that thread? .5 to .6 efficiency seems like a giant waste of electricity
    Not sure what .5 .6 efficiency you are looking at.

    I did not get what you meant, with the Grounding as you should be checking it in continuity mode, not resistance for that test.
    Mactec54

  18. #18

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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Not sure what .5 .6 efficiency you are looking at.

    I did not get what you meant, with the Grounding as you should be checking it in continuity mode, not resistance for that test.
    In another thread (https://www.cnczone.com/forums/spind...466-cnc-2.html) you said

    "And the correct EMI Power Filter I recommend does a better job than this line reactor

    Posting information from the likes of Yaskawa or from any Drive manufacture, you first have to have an understanding of the subject and have experience with this, before you post something you know nothing about"

    You were discussing Power correction factor with some of the usual suspects. What came up was that Vfd's were very inefficient and had to be severely derrated. Some saying down to 60% or so and that possibly a reactor or your recomended TDK filter could boost that up somewhat.

    with respect to chinese spindle grounding, I had continuity between the #4 pin and the spindle case. I grounded pin 4 to the VFD anyhow, for good measure.

    Sidebar: How does that work with ceramic balls in the bearings resulting in no path to ground?? unless there is some kind of grounding brush or whatever.

    Did I clear anything up or add to the confusion....lol

  19. #19
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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Quote Originally Posted by rjwims View Post
    In another thread (https://www.cnczone.com/forums/spind...466-cnc-2.html) you said

    "And the correct EMI Power Filter I recommend does a better job than this line reactor

    Posting information from the likes of Yaskawa or from any Drive manufacture, you first have to have an understanding of the subject and have experience with this, before you post something you know nothing about"

    You were discussing Power correction factor with some of the usual suspects. What came up was that Vfd's were very inefficient and had to be severely derrated. Some saying down to 60% or so and that possibly a reactor or your recomended TDK filter could boost that up somewhat.

    with respect to chinese spindle grounding, I had continuity between the #4 pin and the spindle case. I grounded pin 4 to the VFD anyhow, for good measure.

    Sidebar: How does that work with ceramic balls in the bearings resulting in no path to ground?? unless there is some kind of grounding brush or whatever.

    Did I clear anything up or add to the confusion....lol
    Some know and some pretend to know. yes, a VFD Drive is automatically derated when you use Single Phase supply to a 3 Phase VFD Drive, some of this can be overcome with trick wiring, but the real difference can only be 1.732 which is the difference between single phase and 3 phase use, so in reality there is only normal electrical losses, VFD Drives are more efficient than if you were just powering an AC motor without the use of a VFD Drive. ( VFD Drives are very efficient )

    Ceramic Bearings do create a problem and the rotor should be Grounded, using a brush of some type for Grounding it, as the Rotor charge has to go somewhere, while it is working it will discharge through the tool to the work if it is metal that you are machining, it can also be discharged when doing an auto tool change. but watch changing it by hand as you may get a little Zap, if it has not discharged.

    An EMI Power Filter can't boost the power supply in any way, it cleans up the power, and helps with the high frequency harmonics, this is what you are mostly dealing with these High-Speed High-Frequency Spindles

    PF. is in play no matter what you are doing with your electrical supply. this is not even something you have to consider.

    Power factor correction
    Power factor correction is an adjustment of the electrical circuit in order to change the power factor near 1.

    Power factor near 1 will reduce the reactive power in the circuit and most of the power in the circuit will be real power. This will also reduce power lines losses.

    The power factor correction is usually done by adding capacitors to the load circuit, when the circuit has inductive components, like an electric motor.
    Mactec54

  20. #20

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    Re: Need help ....Fuling Vfd, steel enclosure and small steps

    Could you please give an an example of 1.732 single to 3 phase perhaps based on my 8.8 per phase 3.2kw motor

    You mentioned Trick wiring. Can you explain

    Also, does the attached chart look accurate?

    thanks again

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