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IndustryArena Forum > WoodWorking Machines > DIY CNC Router Table Machines > New DIY CNC with MACH4 ESS/MB3 and clearpath servo motors
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  1. #1
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    New DIY CNC with MACH4 ESS/MB3 and clearpath servo motors

    I am slowly inching forward in building my first cnc.

    I'm using ESS/MB3 combo with clearpath CPM-SDSK-3421S-RLS motors.

    I am almost finished installing hard stops. I have temporarily wired all motors to the board, and tuned all motors with clearpath software. I have also calibrated the distance in motors so one inch in mach4 is 1 inch on the table.

    What i would like to do primarily is repeated jobs (G54), so my question is;

    How do i setup and wire the limit switches, home switches and Estop?

    I am assuming i need 6 limit switches and 3 homing switches. 2 switches per axis for limit and 1 per axis for home. Should estop be wired directly to the MB3 board or wired with limit switches?
    How do i wire
    HLFB + and - from motors for homing?

    I was going to use this switches for limit and homing, Is this ok?

    https://www.amazon.com/ME-8108-Adjus...l&sr=1-36&th=1

    What is the best way to go about this? Electronics and electrical schematic is not my thing so i'm struggling reading and understanding ESS and MB3 manuals

    Short video of machine working.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRLg...ature=youtu.be

    Appreciate any help i can get to get this going!

    Darko

  2. #2
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    Apr 2018
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    36

    Re: New DIY CNC with MACH4 ESS/MB3 and clearpath servo motors

    Hi darko9000 – I’m an engineer with Teknic and I’d like to offer some suggestions regarding your application.

    ClearPath has a built-in homing algorithm, called "precision hard stop homing", that provides accurate and repeatable homing and can potentially reduce wiring and sensors in your machine. To use precision hard stop homing, your machine would need to have reasonably stiff, physical hard stops (e.g. high durometer rubber or a metal such as steel or aluminum). Here is a video link (start at 3:34) showing the accuracy and repeatability of this hard stop homing feature:
    https://youtu.be/-LubKmpB5-8?t=214

    The HLFB (High Level FeedBack) output from your ClearPath motor is an optically isolated, open collector output, so it supports any voltage source, 5-24Vdc. I would recommend that you wire HLFB to an appropriate input on the MACH4 breakout board and configure HLFB to inform your CNC controller that ClearPath has completed the homing routine. Please refer to the ClearPath User Manual for more information on configuring and wiring HLFB: https://www.teknic.com/files/downloa...ser_manual.pdf

    The TWTADE/TA-8108 sensor is an electromechanical sensor that can directly control an electrical load. You can certainly use this sensor, but I find that customers (mostly in the commercial space) often use a logic sensor. For example, you could consider a non-contact, inductive sensor because they are non contact, typically smaller yet still robust for CNC applications. Although these sensor types are generally more expensive, I did find a reasonably priced one on Allied Electronics. Since you would wire this sensor to the MACH4 breakout board, be sure to verify MACH’s electrical preference: PnP or NpN type.
    https://www.alliedelec.com/product/o...1-b1/70330923/

    Some controllers also offer “software” travel limits – the controller will issue an error code and prevent motion if you try to jog the motor or command a position past these limits. I would check with MACH4 (New Fangled Solutions) to see if they provide this functionality. If they offer controllers with these software limits, then you could also eliminate the physical limit switches (and save more wiring). If this feature is not available, then you would need to wire limit switches to the MACH4 breakout board.

    I hope this information helps. If you have any questions, or you'd like to talk about your specific application, please feel free to give us a call at 585-784-7454, or use our "Contact Us" form online at https://www.teknic.com/contact/.

    Thanks,
    Abe A. - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer

  3. #3
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    Re: New DIY CNC with MACH4 ESS/MB3 and clearpath servo motors

    Ok I have been working on a design while I wait for my hardware but That being said this has not been tested ..
    So take look And see if This helps at all...
    There are no guarantees as I have no hardware here yet..

    The estop is an example hard wired switch..
    HLFB (High Level FeedBack) has not been shown as that will give you feedback only if you need it..and sensor-less homing if you want(MODELS MCVC, MCPV,).
    I was just going to use the MB3 and ESS for homing with inputs..
    But this might get you started..

  4. #4
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    Re: New DIY CNC with MACH4 ESS/MB3 and clearpath servo motors

    Quote Originally Posted by Teknic_Servo View Post
    Hi darko9000 – I’m an engineer with Teknic and I’d like to offer some suggestions regarding your application.

    ClearPath has a built-in homing algorithm, called "precision hard stop homing", that provides accurate and repeatable homing and can potentially reduce wiring and sensors in your machine. To use precision hard stop homing, your machine would need to have reasonably stiff, physical hard stops (e.g. high durometer rubber or a metal such as steel or aluminum). Here is a video link (start at 3:34) showing the accuracy and repeatability of this hard stop homing feature:
    https://youtu.be/-LubKmpB5-8?t=214

    I hope this information helps. If you have any questions, or you'd like to talk about your specific application, please feel free to give us a call at 585-784-7454, or use our "Contact Us" form online at https://www.teknic.com/contact/.

    Thanks,
    Abe A. - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer
    Thanks for your reply Abe,

    I will consider this when I build the frame out of the metal.

    My machine right now is built out of the wood so I'm not sure that I can use my "stops" as my homing.

    When I finally got everything temporarily wired and working, I got a little bit to exited and slammed Z axis in one of the metal angle bracket I installed as a stop and it ripped the bracket out of the position. Maybe in about one year when I learn more I will rebuilt the frame out of the steel and consider that option.

    Thank you!

  5. #5
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    Re: New DIY CNC with MACH4 ESS/MB3 and clearpath servo motors

    Quote Originally Posted by restless1 View Post
    Ok I have been working on a design while I wait for my hardware but That being said this has not been tested ..
    So take look And see if This helps at all...
    There are no guarantees as I have no hardware here yet..

    The estop is an example hard wired switch..
    HLFB (High Level FeedBack) has not been shown as that will give you feedback only if you need it..and sensor-less homing if you want(MODELS MCVC, MCPV,).
    I was just going to use the MB3 and ESS for homing with inputs..
    But this might get you started..

    Thanks for your reply Restless1,

    That is how I ended up wiring everything. The only difference is that I have a different power supply ANTEC PS-10N80

    Right now I'm working on my control box but I have actually made my first cut.

    In the video you can se that my plunge feed rate was to slow and my router was struggling a little bit but I cut 3/4 " plywood in one pass with single flute compression bit.

    https://youtu.be/iFmaT9iPPbk

    https://youtu.be/HJTgaQTzUlU

    Thanks!

    Darko







  6. #6
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    155

    Re: New DIY CNC with MACH4 ESS/MB3 and clearpath servo motors

    Great at least your on your way..
    Speeds and feeds will be your biggest puzzle till you figure out how rigid your system is and what kind of stresses it can take..
    Don' forget about tramming,surfacing and alignment.Also tuning in your measurements of actual vs assumed travel of all axis using machs built in calibration routines..
    Happy Routing!

    And always remember you can use your machine to build a better one later on

  7. #7
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    84

    Re: New DIY CNC with MACH4 ESS/MB3 and clearpath servo motors

    Darko9000

    ("I have also calibrated the distance in motors so one inch in mach4 is 1 inch on the table.")

    I have the same motor you have except it's the Enhanced version. How did you go about doing this?
    I'm currently using Mach3 but plan on switching to UCCNC. Anyway i'm sure the process is close to the same.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2006

    Re: New DIY CNC with MACH4 ESS/MB3 and clearpath servo motors

    Hi,
    I use Mach4 an ESS and my own home made breakout board, very similar to an MB3.

    Given that you have an MB3 and an ESS you have plenty of IO, 51 inputs and outputs in total. Its perfectly possible to have nine switches, six limits, two per axis,
    three homes, one per axis, That is exactly how I have done my new mill. You can if you wish combine switches to reduce the wiring and number of inputs, not that that is my preference.

    The switches you linked to are even flasher than the Omron Roller plunger ones I use and they'll work perfectly for you.

    I use 750W Delta B2 series servos, and they absolutely honk. I regularly get 2.5m/s2, and that's with axes weighing 150kg of cast iron!. I use differential signaling because I require a max rate pulse
    stream of 416kHz.

    Craig

  9. #9
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    Jan 2005
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    14293

    Re: New DIY CNC with MACH4 ESS/MB3 and clearpath servo motors

    Quote Originally Posted by Teknic_Servo View Post
    Hi darko9000 – I’m an engineer with Teknic and I’d like to offer some suggestions regarding your application.

    ClearPath has a built-in homing algorithm, called "precision hard stop homing", that provides accurate and repeatable homing and can potentially reduce wiring and sensors in your machine. To use precision hard stop homing, your machine would need to have reasonably stiff, physical hard stops (e.g. high durometer rubber or a metal such as steel or aluminum). Here is a video link (start at 3:34) showing the accuracy and repeatability of this hard stop homing feature:
    https://youtu.be/-LubKmpB5-8?t=214

    The HLFB (High Level FeedBack) output from your ClearPath motor is an optically isolated, open collector output, so it supports any voltage source, 5-24Vdc. I would recommend that you wire HLFB to an appropriate input on the MACH4 breakout board and configure HLFB to inform your CNC controller that ClearPath has completed the homing routine. Please refer to the ClearPath User Manual for more information on configuring and wiring HLFB: https://www.teknic.com/files/downloa...ser_manual.pdf

    The TWTADE/TA-8108 sensor is an electromechanical sensor that can directly control an electrical load. You can certainly use this sensor, but I find that customers (mostly in the commercial space) often use a logic sensor. For example, you could consider a non-contact, inductive sensor because they are non contact, typically smaller yet still robust for CNC applications. Although these sensor types are generally more expensive, I did find a reasonably priced one on Allied Electronics. Since you would wire this sensor to the MACH4 breakout board, be sure to verify MACH’s electrical preference: PnP or NpN type.
    https://www.alliedelec.com/product/o...1-b1/70330923/

    Some controllers also offer “software” travel limits – the controller will issue an error code and prevent motion if you try to jog the motor or command a position past these limits. I would check with MACH4 (New Fangled Solutions) to see if they provide this functionality. If they offer controllers with these software limits, then you could also eliminate the physical limit switches (and save more wiring). If this feature is not available, then you would need to wire limit switches to the MACH4 breakout board.

    I hope this information helps. If you have any questions, or you'd like to talk about your specific application, please feel free to give us a call at 585-784-7454, or use our "Contact Us" form online at https://www.teknic.com/contact/.

    Thanks,
    Abe A. - Teknic Servo Systems Engineer
    No machine should ever be subjected to a hard stopped for homing, no matter how sensitive your motor can react to this, this is a really bad idea to suggest, or have such a function
    Mactec54

  10. #10
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    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    2006

    Re: New DIY CNC with MACH4 ESS/MB3 and clearpath servo motors

    Hi,
    in order to make the servos a simple a possible Clearpath have all but stripped out all the IO that you would expect from a modern servo, which includes the ability to hook up
    limit switches direct to the servo, and thus hardstop homing is the only option. I'm with Matec, I'd hate to do that to my ballscrews, hardstop homing is a bad idea.

    Craig

  11. #11
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    Re: New DIY CNC with MACH4 ESS/MB3 and clearpath servo motors

    Quote Originally Posted by hacker7 View Post
    Darko9000

    ("I have also calibrated the distance in motors so one inch in mach4 is 1 inch on the table.")

    I have the same motor you have except it's the Enhanced version. How did you go about doing this?
    I'm currently using Mach3 but plan on switching to UCCNC. Anyway i'm sure the process is close to the same.

    Sorry for a late reply, I'm using MACH4 but I can't imagine that it would be that much different from MACH3.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-xCWDR0Uvg

    This video describes a process of how to calibrate motors to get close measurement, after that I used dial indicator to get precise calculation. so far SERVOS with MB3 board and MACH4 have been rock solid for me. I haven't had a chance to play with CNC a lot since my wife and I currently building our own house but I can't wait to go back to it. I have so many different projects that I want to do and play with.


    Darko

  12. #12
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    Apr 2018
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    36

    Re: New DIY CNC with MACH4 ESS/MB3 and clearpath servo motors

    Hi mactec54 and joeaverage,

    Will hard stop homing damage mechanics?
    Your concern is certainly valid. Within the hard stop homing algorithm, one can configure multiple parameters to ensure that the carriage gently clamps the mechanics without damage (these parameters include global torque limits and homing velocities). Properly configured, it’s accurate, repeatable, and gentle on the mechanics - even with ball screws that can produce high potential forces.

    Why would someone consider hard stop homing?
    It lets you eliminate sensors and limit switches which reduces wiring, saves money, and increases overall system reliability.

    I’ve reposted two video segments below which demonstrate hard stop homing.
    ** Hard Stop Homing Overview (play for 30 seconds from this point): https://youtu.be/PzkqECpQ9fM?t=1m3s
    ** Precision Hard Stop Homing (play for 90 seconds from this point): https://youtu.be/-LubKmpB5-8?t=214

    Note that within the ClearPath SDSK & SDHP servo motors, hard stop homing is optional. You can select either 1) ClearPath’s internal hard stop homing algorithms or 2) the CNC controller’s native homing routines (which typically use a limit sensor).

    I hope this information helps. If you have questions, or you'd like to talk about your specific application, please feel free to give us a call at 585-784-7454, or use our "Contact Us" form online at https://www.teknic.com/contact/.
    ErikM,
    Teknic Applications Engineer

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