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  1. #1
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    New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    I’ve wanted a cnc milling machine (and lathe) for a long time. After converting my router to Centroid Acorn, I knew I wanted my other machines to run their control as well. I just got this machine home. Was 150 miles away. Weighs 6000 pounds, CAT40 spindle taper, oiler, coolant, Baldor DC servos, 7.5 HP spindle. I think it’s a perfect candidate for control retrofit and will be a great first cnc mill for my shop. Seller needed it out of his shop. I got it for scrap value or a little under.

    I’ve done some searching and come up dry trying to find schematics. Would be helpful for the conversion.

    Plan is AllInOneDC, new VFD, complete rewire, cleanup, etc. I will be using a single phase supply into a Fuji Electric FRN0047C2S-2U 15HP VFD.

    I’m very much interested in/asking for input.











    Made it to my shop without incident.



    Delta 20 control.


  2. #2
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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Got the mill in the shop. Looks like good bones. Needs a thorough cleaning and a complete electrical rebuild. Lots of useable parts.






  3. #3
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Looks like a fun project. One that I have done a few times.

    I would start by tracing wires from the field devices: Limit switches, prox sensors, pumps, ect. Write it all down, device, function, wire color, wire number, cable identifier, and connection points on both ends. Now you have an I/O map to work from. Then you can strip out all of the hardware that will not be used, but I would keep all of the heavy power handling components in place if they can be reused.

    Then create a new I/O map with all of the connections to the new hardware. Makes wiring it up pretty easy.

    I'll be watching your progress
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Jim,

    Thanks for the great advice. That's the plan. I'm currently trying to sort out a suitable spindle drive replacement that I can use with single phase power.

  5. #5
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    My pleasure.

    You might concider a rotary phase converter to supply power to your spindle. That's what I did with my 10 HP lathe spindle, running it on a 10 HP VFD, but supplying that with the 3 phase from the RPC. I built a 15 HP RPC. I am running my 7.5 HP Haas spindle on single phase, but the machine was designed for single or 3 phase input.

    In that HP range there may be VFDs available that are rated for single phase input, but don't buy a cheap one off of EBay. Also you are going to want one that has sensorless vector control to maintain torque at lower RPMs.

    It is also possible that you could use the original spindle drive if you can find the specs on it. Maybe the documentation is available. Pretty sure that this would require 3 phase input, so a RPC would be a good option.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  6. #6
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    New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    The original VFD is not working. I don't want an RPC. I'm fine with buying a 15HP VFD. Will this drive do the trick Fuji Electric FRN0047C2S-2U 15HP VFD? It will work on single phase input, derated to 7.5HP/11KW, 26 amps.

    I'm a little foggy on the sensorless vector part of the conversation.

    Motor nameplate:


    Original drive nameplate:

  7. #7
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    That VFD does have sensorless vector control (Dynamic Torque Vector control (Induction Motor)) It's a method of maintaining full torque throughout the operating range of the motor. It's done by electrical magic inside the VFD.

    https://www.wolfautomation.com/media...-seventeen.pdf

    But, your motor is rated at 39 amps at lower RPMs, and that VFD is only rated at 26 amps max when running on single phase. The original VFD is rated at 36 amps max. Spindle motors are kind of strange animals, they actually draw more current at low RPMs than at the higher ranges. My lathe spindle is running at about 90% load (current) at 300 RPM, but at 3000 RPM it runs at about 50% load with about the same torque generated throughout the range.

    https://www.wolfautomation.com/media...5-appnotes.pdf
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Can I run the spindle with a 26 amp limit (drive's output limit)? I understand it t would have less power.

    Or, do I need to accept a RPC is in my future until I have three phase service installed?

  9. #9
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    A couple of problems with doing it that way. You could run the VFD in V/F mode with slip compensation off, but doing this would severely limit your low speed performance and could cause stalling under moderate load conditions. Also the speed control would suck at best.

    On some VFDs you can set the output voltage lower than the motor rated voltage, and then back down the maximum output current to about 75%. At least you might have a chance of getting it to run that way, but I have never tried it. But it's still going to trip out if it goes over current. And that is a really bad thing when the cutter is buried in the work, just make sure that the drive fault is tied into the E-stop circuit. At least there is a chance that you won't break the cutter and destroy your work when the drive faults out.

    I know you don't want a RPC, but it is really the cleanest method of running your spindle.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Thank you so much for the information, Jim!

    Is a 15hp RPC the right size? Any suggestions on that front? Any derating or anything?

  11. #11
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    With a 7.5 HP spindle, a 10 HP RPC would run it just fine. American Rotary is one good option, they have CNC rated RPCs https://www.americanrotary.com/

    Phase Perfect is another option, all solid state, no motor required. https://www.phasetechnologies.com/pr.../phase-perfect

    There are others.

    Or you could just build your own, sounds like you have enough electrical experience. Lots of information on the internet and a few build threads on CNC Zone I think. I may have a build thread on here for mine.

    The good news is that with a RPC you can size the VFD to the spindle without derating. But remember the full load amps when choosing a VFD.

    EDIT: A little more research indicates that a 15HP RPC would be a better match for that motor given its unusually high full load current for a 5.5 KW motor. Also, it looks like a 15HP VFD would also be in order, but a 10 HP would work if you don't push the machine to the max. I suspect the full load current is so high because of the 200V rating vs. a normal 240V motor.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    The good news is I could start with the 15hp vfd and single phase to get the spindle turning and see how it does. Then add the phase converter later. I appreciate your advice. Thank you!

    Wondering if anyone has schematics.. I can as-build if I don’t find them.

  13. #13
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Quote Originally Posted by slodat View Post
    The good news is I could start with the 15hp vfd and single phase to get the spindle turning and see how it does. Then add the phase converter later. I appreciate your advice. Thank you!

    Wondering if anyone has schematics.. I can as-build if I don’t find them.
    Sounds like a good plan.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

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    New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Spent several hours and a gallon of cleaner scrubbing the coolant and grime off the mill today. Will need another pass of cleaning. After getting a closer look, I’m still happy with the machine. Should work well for my needs.

    Going to go with a 15hp VFD so I can run the spindle on single phase.











    Not sure what this motor is on the X axis. It’s not the same as the Baldor on the Y.


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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    ZPS CNC sent me the manual and schematics for the mill today. Lots of questions answered. For anyone looking for support, parts, etc they are the people to contact now.

  16. #16
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Looking good! Want to come by and clean my mill?
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Cleaning that dirty old beast was no easy task!

    Schematics in hand I set out to test the control. It powered up, all faults cleared and I was able to reference the machine.



    The Dynapath Delta 20 control is working. Going to sell the old control.

  18. #18
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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Received the 10hp HY VFD today. I currently have accel/decel both set at 8 seconds. Single phase supply sees about 20a peak on that acceleration time. Running current, spinning the spindle only, is 6a in, around 5a out.

    I don’t expect this drive to perform like a drive that would cost 10x the $300 I paid for it. It is nice to see the spindle move. For the money, I can see why guys like these drives.

    I wonder what the old drive’s life was like..




  19. #19
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Looks like it needed a bath. No wonder it fried, it couldn't breathe.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

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    Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Moved the mill into its home. The toe jack made quick work of moving and turning the 6000 pound machine. I’m not going to set it on the floor until it’s up and running. I need a machine try pry bar to lower it off the bar its sitting on.




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