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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Spindles / VFD > please help me connect this vfd to my bob
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  1. #1
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    please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    I thought i would know how to do this but i can't find any documentation for this 220v spindle. Pinout looks unique

    I am using an all in one breakout board/drivers with 3 pins for the spindle.


    Based on a video i saw of a similar VFD i was going to connect like this but i have no idea.

    10v to V1 on VFD
    AVI to FWD on VFD

    GND TO GND
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG20210823163145.jpg   Untitled.jpg   IMG20210823163135.jpg   4.jpg  

    4.jpg   Untitled.png   IMG20210823163135.jpg  
    Last edited by stoneforth; 08-23-2021 at 06:29 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    i found this post that sounds promising. Googled "vfd 13v 10v" and got this. God bless Google

    "1) Wire #1 from controller ground to VFD XGND (DC ground)
    2) Wire #2 from controller output defined as (MACH3 output#2) to VFD FWD input
    Note This will give you the ability to start and top the spindle.
    3) Wire #3 from controller analog ground (Speed circuit) to VFD GND.
    4) Wire #4 from controller analog speed output to VFD VI1 (Speed control voltage).
    5) Wire #5 from controller Analog speed 10V or 12V input to VFD 10V or VFD 13V output"

  3. #3
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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Update. Turns out FWD and REV are assigned to output pins 1&2 consecutively.

    This is how i think it might be wired. Please can somebody confirm before i fry anything

    1) 12v to spindle FWD

    2) Output 1 to XGND


    3) AVI to spindle VL1
    4) GND to GND
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Untitled.png  

  4. #4
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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Quote Originally Posted by stoneforth View Post
    Update. Turns out FWD and REV are assigned to output pins 1&2 consecutively.

    This is how i think it might be wired. Please can somebody confirm before i fry anything

    1) 12v to spindle FWD

    2) Output 1 to XGND


    3) AVI to spindle VL1
    4) GND to GND
    Yes that is how it would work for the FWD On Control Solid state Relay should be Zero crossing so look for this in the spec's

    Is the 10v an input or an output, if an input this is where you would connect the 10v output from the VFD Drive

    The 10v if an output would not be something you connect to the VFD Drive this will damage it unless it is a PWM to Analog 0-10v

    So you have to check these outputs to see if they change with the speed in your control

    Using MDI do a M3S12000 this should give you 5v do not connect anything to the VFD Drive until you get this part working at the Board level
    Mactec54

  5. #5
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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Thanks for reply. I couldn't get mach3 to accept that code but i ran some gcode to check voltages.

    I'm getting 12v on output side while running gcode but i don't get any voltage between ground and AVI or 10v.

    The manual says it has 0-10v for speed control but doesn't say where. Is there a setting i'm missing in software.

    EDIT:

    I saw a post that seems to imply the controller needs the +10v input from VFD before 0-10v control will work, is this correct?

    https://en.industryarena.com/forum/p...r--384243.html
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG20210824093656.jpg  

  6. #6
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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Hi,

    I saw a post that seems to imply the controller needs the +10v input from VFD before 0-10v control will work, is this correct?
    Yes it is quite common for a VFD to produce a constant 10V (approx) that is connected to the controller, and the controller modulates that 10V to somewhere
    in the 0-10V range and that is wired back to the AVI input.

    Craig

  7. #7
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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Hi,



    Yes it is quite common for a VFD to produce a constant 10V (approx) that is connected to the controller, and the controller modulates that 10V to somewhere
    in the 0-10V range and that is wired back to the AVI input.

    Craig
    thanks, i shorted FWD and XGND which started it, and i connected the other wire like this but it's not showing RPM on mach 3 or adjusting the frequency.

    1) +10v from VFD to controller 10V
    2) VI1 from VFD to controller AVI
    3) GND to GND

    Is it possible i have wired it backwards? Seems impossible to figure out without the 0-10v being present to start with

    EDIT: With gcode running i get just under 1v between GND and AVI which increases as i increase spindle speed percentage in mach3.

    with 15000rpm +300% it goes to about 2.5v

  8. #8
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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Hi,

    Is it possible i have wired it backwards? Seems impossible to figure out without the 0-10v being present to start with
    N, I don't think so. So where does the 10V come from? It comes from the VFD and the pulse width modulator of the BoB switches the 10V on and off
    to mimic a voltage bewteen 0 and 10.

    I believe the issue now is to tune Mach and your BoB so you can get 0-10V swing.

    Craig

  9. #9
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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Hi,



    N, I don't think so. So where does the 10V come from? It comes from the VFD and the pulse width modulator of the BoB switches the 10V on and off
    to mimic a voltage bewteen 0 and 10.

    I believe the issue now is to tune Mach and your BoB so you can get 0-10V swing.

    Craig
    Okay, i see a feature called 'Calibrate Spindle' in mach3. I seem to be able to increase AVI voltage by increasing spindle speed percentage so hopefully that works out. I got it over 7v before

    Would you be able to advise what changes to parameters are necessary for this VFD (YL620) to respond to the Controller? I don't think i have it set right at all as i was using the wrong manual.

    I finally found the correct manual with parameters. So far i've only changed P00.01 (Start/stopcommandsource) to 1.

    The frequency setting part i can't understand

    https://bulkman3d.com/wp-content/upl...ter-Manual.pdf

  10. #10
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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Hi,
    I haven't used Mach3 for seven years and if memory serves there were few options for adjusting/tuning the PWM output of Mach3.
    I have used Mach4 for seven years and there are a number of parameters which allow adjustment of the PWM response, although still
    not inclined to be perfectly linear, but close.

    Also there are often parameters within the VFD which tailor the VFD to the PWM output you've got. I would suggest that these parameters are best
    thought of as fine tuning only, whereas adjusting Mach3 and your controller/BoB are the most productive.

    May I suggest looking at the spindle output settings of Mach3. Going from memory I seem to recall that a fairly low frequency PWM signal, say 100Hz, resulted
    in the best linearity.

    It might also be worthwhile to substitute a 9V battery in place of the 10V from the VFD. This would allow you place a voltmeter at the output of your BoB to determine
    if the BoB is working as it should with respects to linearity or whether the VFD is particularly non-linear.

    One last issue that I'm not familiar enough with is the minimum speed setting. In Mach4 for instance there is a setting page of 'SpindleRanges' that allow you to set both max and min
    speeds and the PWM is linear between those two endpoints. Very convenient if you have either multiple spindles or a spindle with multiple gear or belt reductions.
    I have no recollection how Mach3 handled that, if it did at all.

    Craig

  11. #11
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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Hi,
    One last issue that I'm not familiar enough with is the minimum speed setting. In Mach4 for instance there is a setting page of 'SpindleRanges' that allow you to set both max and min
    speeds and the PWM is linear between those two endpoints. Very convenient if you have either multiple spindles or a spindle with multiple gear or belt reductions.
    I have no recollection how Mach3 handled that, if it did at all.

    Craig
    Cheers, i checked min and max pulley speed settings in mach3 and max was set to 240k instead of 24k. AVI is now showing 0-10v correctly.

    I also changed parameter 07.08 to 3 so it's finally working. Bit of fine tuning needed but seems manageable.

    Thank you both for the help. I will grab a zero crossing relay from jaycar

  12. #12
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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Quote Originally Posted by stoneforth View Post
    Cheers, i checked min and max pulley speed settings in mach3 and max was set to 240k instead of 24k. AVI is now showing 0-10v correctly.

    I also changed parameter 07.08 to 3 so it's finally working. Bit of fine tuning needed but seems manageable.

    Thank you both for the help. I will grab a zero crossing relay from jaycar
    If you are able to turn the VFD Drive On / Off then you don't need the Relay

    For frequency Parameter settings what have you already set as this is very important to get right before you run the spindle
    Mactec54

  13. #13
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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    If you are able to turn the VFD Drive On / Off then you don't need the Relay

    For frequency Parameter settings what have you already set as this is very important to get right before you run the spindle
    I just shorted XGND to FWD on VFD to check if it starts, now i'm back to using VFD control panel until relay arrives.

    Spindle RPM and the frequency display on VFD oscillates quite noticeably at what sounds like around 5-10hz when being controlled by mach3. At full speed it's stable and no oscillation.At this point i've given up on speed control through the software. I've got on/off control and fault estop setup which is fine. It would be nice to figure it out though

    Voltage on controller reads a solid number from 0-10v output but it's like the VFD is seeing it as on and off. CHANGING PWM frequency in mach3 makes no difference.

    When i probe the 5v pul terminal i can see pulsing on the multi-meter screen, but 0-10v is stable.

    Do you know of parameters that could cause this

    https://bulkman3d.com/wp-content/upl...ter-Manual.pdf

    Parameters i changed are

    P00.01 set to 1 to enable run commands?P07.08 set to 3 for frequency

    Everything else was set according to how the manual suggests except for 'No.X paragraph frequency P07.00~P07.07'

    mine go from 0-400 instead of 50hz to zero that the manual suggests so i left it

  14. #14
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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Quote Originally Posted by stoneforth View Post
    I just shorted XGND to FWD on VFD to check if it starts, now i'm back to using VFD control panel until relay arrives.

    Spindle RPM and the frequency display on VFD oscillates quite noticeably at what sounds like around 5-10hz when being controlled by mach3. At full speed it's stable and no oscillation.At this point i've given up on speed control through the software. I've got on/off control and fault estop setup which is fine. It would be nice to figure it out though

    Voltage on controller reads a solid number from 0-10v output but it's like the VFD is seeing it as on and off. CHANGING PWM frequency in mach3 makes no difference.

    When i probe the 5v pul terminal i can see pulsing on the multi-meter screen, but 0-10v is stable.

    Do you know of parameters that could cause this

    https://bulkman3d.com/wp-content/upl...ter-Manual.pdf

    Parameters i changed are

    P00.01 set to 1 to enable run commands?P07.08 set to 3 for frequency

    Everything else was set according to how the manual suggests except for 'No.X paragraph frequency P07.00~P07.07'

    mine go from 0-400 instead of 50hz to zero that the manual suggests so i left it
    And what is the spindle motor you are running at 0-400Hz
    Mactec54

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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    And what is the spindle motor you are running at 0-400Hz
    It's an ebay 2.2kw water cooled spindle. 220v

  16. #16
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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Quote Originally Posted by stoneforth View Post
    It's an ebay 2.2kw water cooled spindle. 220v
    You can not run or program these spindles having a 0 RPM this can damage these spindles

    They have a minimum speed of 6000 RPM and must be programed correctly 100Hz = 6000RPM most use 120Hz for minimum speed
    Mactec54

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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    You can not run or program these spindles having a 0 RPM this can damage these spindles

    They have a minimum speed of 6000 RPM and must be programed correctly 100Hz = 6000RPM most use 120Hz for minimum speed
    Ok. I added some lower limits and set No.X paragraph frequency from 50-15hz like manual asks. All parameters are set how manual says now.

    No improvement to oscillation problem from software speed control . I played with DIP switches and oscillation problem improves significantly with them all off but it's still doesn't sound good to me. Motor sound great when controlled by potentiometer so i'm happy to live without being able to control spindle speed via mach3.

    In the future maybe i will attach a potentiometer to the rear like the manual shows and see if the problem is caused by VFD itself

    Thanks for the help

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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    one last question. Does this motor have any protection against overheating? if not what is the max safe operating temperature so i can buy a digital thermostat.

  19. #19
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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Quote Originally Posted by stoneforth View Post
    one last question. Does this motor have any protection against overheating? if not what is the max safe operating temperature so i can buy a digital thermostat.
    You said it is water cooled there should never be a cooling problem unless the pump stops, don't forget to use an anti corrosion in the water to protect the spindle

    Did you check the Ground connection on the 4th pin in the spindle plug most are not connected and need to be connected inside so the Top cap of the spindle needs to be removed to do this, but check it for continuity first 4th pin to the spindle body

    Your problem with the speed control will be at the board level or from Noise so either a problem with the board or the wiring
    Mactec54

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    Re: please help me connect this vfd to my bob

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    You said it is water cooled there should never be a cooling problem unless the pump stops, don't forget to use an anti corrosion in the water to protect the spindle

    Did you check the Ground connection on the 4th pin in the spindle plug most are not connected and need to be connected inside so the Top cap of the spindle needs to be removed to do this, but check it for continuity first 4th pin to the spindle body

    Your problem with the speed control will be at the board level or from Noise so either a problem with the board or the wiring
    The pump has stopped flowing a few times already, although i think i have solved that problem now by fixing airleak and raising tank. I would still expect something that relies on external devices for cooling to have a sensor atleast. I think i'll just add a digital thermostat to be safe.

    My ground wire was already connected inside by the factory thankfully.

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