Just joined, Thinking about a cnc conversion on a busy bee

Hey all, I have a couple busy bee machines, I got the lathe in febuary and just picked up the mill in june or so. Im kinda on the fence about converting the mill to cnc. I really have no cnc expierence other then what they taught me at trade school (I'm apprenticing as a machinst) I have the basics down but have no idea how to go about building one. About whats the cost by time your all said and done? I dont have the typical "x2" either so im not sure if i can just buy a kit or what. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, here a pic of what im workin' with here and my website if you want so see some of my work www.billetpulleys.com

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5479/susan46.jpg

I once considered a CNC conversion of my BusyBee combo mill-lathe, even going as far as buying some servo drives and ballscrews.

I ended up abandoning the project because of the required work in setting up ballscrew drives and VFD motor control. The rack and pinion arrangement in manual lathes has too much backlash for CNC, and I found the same problem existed in the quill feed for most manual mills.

If it was as simple as bolting on servo or stepper motors I'd have gone ahead with the upgrades, but having to completely reengineer how positioning was accomplished was too much for me.

I know yours is not an "X2" but check out this site, he has done some amazing stuff with a little mill...

http://hossmachine.info/

you do some nice work btw...looks like you would be very good with some cnc machines once you learned how to use em... based on your product line, i think you should cnc the lathe first.

I was actually thinking about doing the lathe but don't wan't to have to turn down work if its all ripped apart, the main reason I wanted to do the mill is to do engraving, contours, radiouses and all that nonsense. Also I really don't want to have to give up my manual machines so its looking like I might need to buy an actual x2 down the road and convert her over.

About what price am I looking at for an x2 by time im done with software computers, drivers, servos, motors, relays, switches and everything.

Thanks guys

Deanier,
As far as loosing the "manual" status of your machine, think of it as flying by wire! Either use the MDI functions of your controller or obtain an MPG to handle the movement. As for me, I was convinced by others that once it was converted that I would not miss the handles. Guess what, that was over 5 years ago and I don't miss the handles:}) I figure it will be the same when the lathe is done also.

Thats what everyone has been saying, maybe its just because I don't really run cnc but if i wanted to take a quick cut, or drill a couple quick holes somewhere I think it would be easier to just do it manually? I might prove myself wrong once i get one up and running haha

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Originally Posted by Bubba

Deanier,
As far as loosing the "manual" status of your machine, think of it as flying by wire! Either use the MDI functions of your controller or obtain an MPG to handle the movement. As for me, I was convinced by others that once it was converted that I would not miss the handles. Guess what, that was over 5 years ago and I don't miss the handles:}) I figure it will be the same when the lathe is done also.

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Deanier,
Think of it as having power feeds in all axis!

That does sound nice, it's just having to write a program to drill a hole. I'm sure once i get into it I'll be fine

Is this an X2, I can't believe this uses an r8 spindle.. I wish my machine had that

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44991

I believe it is. I don't pay that much attention to those so I can't be positive.

As for drilling a hole, sometimes I just use a continuous jog key to push the drill down and up. Sure, the feed may not be "correct", neither is it when I use a drill press by had:})

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Originally Posted by Bubba

As for drilling a hole, sometimes I just use a continuous jog key to push the drill down and up.

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The hand wheel is nice for that also, you can peck drill nice with it.
And if you have an array of holes, just command the axis a relative or absolute position move.
Al.

Beleive it when they say that you will never look back to manual after having cnc control on your mill. Art is right, think of it as having power feed on all three axes that is basically infinitely controllable. I have a knee mill here that is still manual and the only reason it is still here is because I am not fully completed on my cnc conversion just yet( power drawbar and atc). It is covered with a tarp and rarely sees the light of day anymore.... I rarely Go to Cad or even MDI anymore to drill a simple hole. Sometimes I just set the feedrate real slow and jog to the hole and drill it in automanual mode. An MDI input for a hole is basically one line of code that can be typed in in about a couple seconds once you know what you are doing. Nothing like a peck drilling cycle for a nice clean hole either. Basically the machine is completely under your control and can do ANYTHING you want within it's physical limits once you have cnc. MAch3's wizards also make doing simple frequent operations nice and easy. You could probably machine most of your stuff just using them if you wanted.... I am currently trying to decide wether or not to sell my Knee mill to finance an IH machine and do another conversion to have two cnc mills up and running around here.... IF you are gonna do an X2 Hoss is the man there... BTW real nice pulleys there man... peace

Hi deanler. Welcome to the Zone!

If I were you I would go for a more heavy-duty mill than an X2. I would get the Harbor Freight X3. With a 20% off coupon (Page 104 of December Popular Mechanics) You can get one for about $800 USD.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93885

You would have to call the store to order, then plan a trip down to Buffalo to pick it up.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...l_Store_ID=147

CR.

BUFFALO? theres a harbour freight 15 minutes away in port huron michigan! haha. No ones really given me an answer as to how much I should expect to put away for the conversion. That x3 is probably abouit the size of the one i have now and it seems to work pretty well, not compared to a full size obviously but for what it is.

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Originally Posted by Crevice Reamer

Hi deanler. Welcome to the Zone!

If I were you I would go for a more heavy-duty mill than an X2. I would get the Harbor Freight X3. With a 20% off coupon (Page 104 of December Popular Mechanics) You can get one for about $800 USD.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93885

You would have to call the store to order, then plan a trip down to Buffalo to pick it up.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...l_Store_ID=147

CR.

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All of my estimates for a fully converted CNC X2 have been right around $1500 including

X2 Mill from Harbor Freight ITEM 44991-8VGA
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44991 $489.00 - 20% coupon $391

Keling electronics
CNC 3 Axis Package with 382 oz-in motor and KL-4030 Bipolar
Driver with 36V/8.8A Power Supply(110V/220V) :$389
http://kelinginc.net/CNCNEMA23Package.html

CNCfusion kit
Mini-Mill CNC kit #4 - with X-Y BALLSCREWS

Includes everything from Kit #1 but with BALLSCREWS for the X and Y axis. Extra hardware for installing the ballscrews is also included. $559
http://www.cncfusion.com/minimill1.html

Thanks, that seems prett reasonable, It will probably take a while for it to pay for itself, but hey. The way i see it you can never have to much cool **** in your garage, people cant even believe a kid my age has a lathe and a mill i cant imagine the looks on peoples faces when i show them my friggen cnc machine hahaa Ill start saving!

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Originally Posted by mwood3

All of my estimates for a fully converted CNC X2 have been right around $1500 including

X2 Mill from Harbor Freight ITEM 44991-8VGA
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44991 $489.00 - 20% coupon $391

Keling electronics
CNC 3 Axis Package with 382 oz-in motor and KL-4030 Bipolar
Driver with 36V/8.8A Power Supply(110V/220V) :$389
http://kelinginc.net/CNCNEMA23Package.html

CNCfusion kit
Mini-Mill CNC kit #4 - with X-Y BALLSCREWS

Includes everything from Kit #1 but with BALLSCREWS for the X and Y axis. Extra hardware for installing the ballscrews is also included. $559
http://www.cncfusion.com/minimill1.html

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It also might not hurt to upgrade to the 48v power supply and if your not too good with electronics go for the G540 kit...

G540 4 axis package (One G540 + Four
KL23H2100-35-4B (1/4” Dual shaft with a flat) 381 oz-in + one KL-
350-48 48V/7.3A 115V /230Vpower supply: $544.95


http://kelinginc.net/CNCNEMA23G540Package.html

Of course this will bump up the price some but the G540 is a "plug and play setup" (reduces lots of fiddling) and it includes a fourth axis setup with it (or you can get the 3 axis kit and have a spare drive)

you will also need to consider a PC to run it and an electronics enclosue...both are somewhat trivial once you get this far though.

Ide defaintly be looking at the g540 thing, plug and play is my middle name. I was wondering about what computer i need? Like can i just take my laptop out and plug it in when i wanna cut. Also does the mach3 have like a software for drawing and modeling or just the drivers and stuff for the machine

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mwood3

It also might not hurt to upgrade to the 48v power supply and if your not too good with electronics go for the G540 kit...

G540 4 axis package (One G540 + Four
KL23H2100-35-4B (1/4” Dual shaft with a flat) 381 oz-in + one KL-
350-48 48V/7.3A 115V /230Vpower supply: $544.95


http://kelinginc.net/CNCNEMA23G540Package.html

Of course this will bump up the price some but the G540 is a "plug and play setup" (reduces lots of fiddling) and it includes a fourth axis setup with it (or you can get the 3 axis kit and have a spare drive)

you will also need to consider a PC to run it and an electronics enclosue...both are somewhat trivial once you get this far though.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by deanler

BUFFALO? theres a harbour freight 15 minutes away in port huron michigan! haha. No ones really given me an answer as to how much I should expect to put away for the conversion. That x3 is probably abouit the size of the one i have now and it seems to work pretty well, not compared to a full size obviously but for what it is.

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Ah. So you have HF in Canada? Super. I'd still recommend the X3. By the time you install the mandatory belt drive conversion on the X2, it will cost nearly as much for much less mill.

Here's my electronics recommendation for the X3:


$289 G540 This IS a breakout board also.
$098 Keling KL23H2100-35-4B 381 oz motors for X and Y
$099 Keling KL34H295-43-8A 906 oz N34 motor for Z (Detunes to 520 oz W/G540. Changing Z pulley to 1.23:1 = 640 Oz)
$060 Keling KL-350-48 48V/7.3A PSU. (This will handle 3 motors. 4th axis needs more amps.)
$014 Pulley for 1.23:1 https://sdp-si.com/eStore/PartDetail...52&GroupID=217
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$560

You can get the normal X3 ballscrew kit from CNCFusion for about the same as the X2, but you should really invest in the $949 Deluxe kit and add $60 more for helical connectors.

So total CNC cost:

$0800 X3 mill
$0560 Electronics
$1010 CNC conversion kit
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$2370

CR.

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Ah. So you have HF in Canada? Super. I'd still recommend the X3. By the time you install the mandatory belt drive conversion on the X2, it will cost nearly as much for much less mill.

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That x3 is probably abouit the size of the one i have now and it seems to work pretty well, not compared to a full size obviously but for what it is.

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seems if he wanted An X3 sized machine the best way to go would be to convert what he already has... Not trying to start an argument just pointing something out... Also there may not be any kits as far as ball screws, brackets etc for a busy bee but I think he has the equiptment and skill to fab them up^^ JMO