2 Attachment(s)
Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
Hi,
I've always run a big trusty Porter Cable router but decided to upgrade to a spindle, so I purchased a 4 bearing 2.2KW water cooled spindle and VFD from Amazon.
Spindle - says Zhong Hua Jiang, no part number, 8.5 A 220 VAC 400 Hz
VFD - Huanyang HY02D223B
Problem - Motor exhibits peculiar erratic brrring sounds on top of smooth bearing sounds.
I've never had a spindle before, expected the noise to be constant and smooth. I'm still in the 30 day return window and wondering what I should do.
I couldn't attach the video directly, but the .zip file has a MOV file and longer .mp3. I'd sure appreciate it if someone could take a quick listen and let me know what you think.
I hooked my scope up to the VFD output. It looks REALLY messy, don't know what's up with that. The changing waveforms look problematic, but they don't seem to line up with the noise bursts, otherwise I'd blame the motor noise on crummy waveforms from the VFD.
BTW the motor rotates freely by hand, no perceptible bearing problems. Also note, I've made no changes to the VDF factory setup. Don't know if that could be a problem.
Re: Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
henryj
Hi,
I've always run a big trusty Porter Cable router but decided to upgrade to a spindle, so I purchased a 4 bearing 2.2KW water cooled spindle and VFD from Amazon.
Spindle - says Zhong Hua Jiang, no part number, 8.5 A 220 VAC 400 Hz
VFD - Huanyang HY02D223B
Problem - Motor exhibits peculiar erratic brrring sounds on top of smooth bearing sounds.
I've never had a spindle before, expected the noise to be constant and smooth. I'm still in the 30 day return window and wondering what I should do.
I couldn't attach the video directly, but the .zip file has a MOV file and longer .mp3. I'd sure appreciate it if someone could take a quick listen and let me know what you think.
I hooked my scope up to the VFD output. It looks REALLY messy, don't know what's up with that. The changing waveforms look problematic, but they don't seem to line up with the noise bursts, otherwise I'd blame the motor noise on crummy waveforms from the VFD.
BTW the motor rotates freely by hand, no perceptible bearing problems. Also note, I've made no changes to the VDF factory setup. Don't know if that could be a problem.
How have you ground the Shielded cable, this does though sound like a bearing skidding some can do this until the grease is dispersed, what do you have the carrier frequency set at this too can cause some strange noises the scope looks ok for a PWM signal with noise
Don't run it if you have not checked that the parameters are set correct the factory does not set all the needed Parameters and you will do damage if not set correct
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mactec54
How have you ground the Shielded cable, this does though sound like a bearing skidding some can do this until the grease is dispersed, what do you have the carrier frequency set at this too can cause some strange noises the scope looks ok for a PWM signal with noise
Don't run it if you have not checked that the parameters are set correct the factory does not set all the needed Parameters and you will do damage if not set correct
Thanks for responding.
I used non shielded 16/3 cable (all I could fit in the too small connector shell), however I don't see any evidence on the scope of any problems related to non shielding.
According to the scope, the PWM chopping frequency is 9 KHz, which I think is the carrier frequency you're referring to.
Important Question - when you said "this does sound like," were you referring to my written description, or were you referring to the actual sound in the .mp3 or .mov files in the original .zip. I'd really like an experienced ear to give it a listen if you haven't.
With respect to programming, that manual sure isn't very good, and YT video's aren't helping much either. I'm in US with 60 Hz single phase 240 VAC input, spindle is 220/240 VAC 8.5 A 24,000 RPM. Are there some particular settings I should watch out for, besides 2 pole 4 pole motor setting?
Re: Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
henryj
Thanks for responding.
I used non shielded 16/3 cable (all I could fit in the too small connector shell), however I don't see any evidence on the scope of any problems related to non shielding.
According to the scope, the PWM chopping frequency is 9 KHz, which I think is the carrier frequency you're referring to.
Important Question - when you said "this does sound like," were you referring to my written description, or were you referring to the actual sound in the .mp3 or .mov files in the original .zip. I'd really like an experienced ear to give it a listen if you haven't.
With respect to programming, that manual sure isn't very good, and YT video's aren't helping much either. I'm in US with 60 Hz single phase 240 VAC input, spindle is 220/240 VAC 8.5 A 24,000 RPM. Are there some particular settings I should watch out for, besides 2 pole 4 pole motor setting?
The noise I was referring to is when the bearing is full of grease it skids instead of rolling, if this is the problem it normally will get better as the spindle run
The 60Hz frequency has nothing to do with your spindle / VFD Drive settings the drive must be set to the spindle name plate frequency, or you will damage the spindle takes just a few seconds of running at the wrong frequency settings
Its not recommended to use any VFD to spindle motor cable that is not shielded and the shield must be clamped to the Ground plane
Yes, 9Khz carrier frequency is getting to the top for these spindles 10 being around the max before they start to get over heating problems
These are the parameters you need set,
Huanyang Mactec54
2.2Kw 220v 400Hz water cooled /Air Cooled
PD000=0 ( 1 For Parameter Lock )
PD001=0 (1 For Remote Control)
PD002=0 ( 1 For 0-10v Terminal Control or Remote Trim Pot Control )
( J1 Also Needs to be set for Remote Terminal Control 1-2 jumper connection )
PD003=400
PD004=400
PD005=400
PD006=5
PD007=20
PD008=220 (Motor Rated Voltage )
PD009=15
PD010=15
PD011=120 ( 100 Minimum Setting VFD, 150 is Safe for air cooled for startup )
PD013= 08 is for Factory reset, Only use this to set VFD to Factory Default Settings
PD014 Acceleration=8 ( Adjust to suit)
PD015 Deceleration=8 (Adjust to suit)
PD023=0 ( Forward Run Only )
PD041=8 ( Carrier Frequency up to 10 Max for these Spindle motors)
PD120=120 ( Stall Prevention )
PD141=220 ( Motor Rated Voltage )
PD142=9 ( Motor Max Amps 2.2Kw Spindle 9 amp )
PD143=2 ( Motor Number of Poles)
PD144=3000 (Max Motor RPM) 3,000= (24,000)
PD070=0 ( This may need to be set to 1 if Control Voltage is 0-5v )
PD072=400
PD073=120 ( 100 Minimum RPM Setting 150 is Safe for air cooled spindles at startup )
PD174=11 ??? ( To Be Set to the VFD Drives Max Rated Output Amps )
Re: Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
Checked the parameters, made minor changes, they all look okay.
Motor still has strange sound.
I'm still not clear from your response if you were able to actually listen to the .mp3 or .MOV in the .zip file of my original post.
Does it sound like bearing skidding noise? I'm pretty sure that's what it is now.
How often are these Chinese motors bad out of the box?
Re: Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
henryj
Checked the parameters, made minor changes, they all look okay.
Motor still has strange sound.
I'm still not clear from your response if you were able to actually listen to the .mp3 or .MOV in the .zip file of my original post.
Does it sound like bearing skidding noise? I'm pretty sure that's what it is now.
How often are these Chinese motors bad out of the box?
Yes I looked at the mp3, first thoughts is the grease has not dispersed around the bearing
Give it some running in the upright position as if it was mounted on your machine
Twist the 3 Phase wires together to see if there is any change, as noise too can make a strange noise similar to this as well, How do you have the Grounding have you checked the continuity between the spindle 4th pin and the spindle body ???
Re: Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
I ran it at 6,000 RPM for a few hours, noise seems to be getting worse.
Initiated replacement order with Amazon.
Thanks for your help
Re: Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
henryj
I ran it at 6,000 RPM for a few hours, noise seems to be getting worse.
Initiated replacement order with Amazon.
Thanks for your help
You should of run it right through the RPM range so that it warmed up enough for the grease to disperse, quite a lot of these spindles have this bearing noise until they have run for some time right up to the max RPM, not much is going to happen at 6,000 RPM when there correct working speed is 24,000 RPM
If it got worse when running at 24,000 RPM I would say it could have a problem
Re: Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
I wouldn't have done the return so quickly except that there was only one more set of these available (0 now). Everything is getting so hard to source.
I'll run it all day tomorrow at higher RPM's, and if it clears up will cancel the replacement.
Re: Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
I have not yet set up my new spindle, also a 2.2KW/24K RPM but a different manufacturer. For breaking in the bearings they recommend raising the speed in increments of approximately 3000 RPM, and letting it run 20 minutes before the next 3000 RPM increase. It ends up being about an hour for each increase of 10K RPM. So for ours about 2.5 hours break in time.
Re: Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TMToronto
I have not yet set up my new spindle, also a 2.2KW/24K RPM but a different manufacturer. For breaking in the bearings they recommend raising the speed in increments of approximately 3000 RPM, and letting it run 20 minutes before the next 3000 RPM increase. It ends up being about an hour for each increase of 10K RPM. So for ours about 2.5 hours break in time.
Thanks. I wish the manufacturers would put colorful stickers to that effect on new spindles. Don't know how a new user should be expected to know. My old Porter Cable 7518 router mentioned in original post ran from the get go at 21,000 RPM, never required break in, and it's bearings have been going strong for some 12 years now. So I didn't expect this.
Has anyone else been able to listen to the noise in the .zip file? mactec54 has been very helpful, but I'd appreciate a second opinion from another spindle owner. While I think it's bearings, I could still be wrong on that.
Re: Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
henryj
Thanks. I wish the manufacturers would put colorful stickers to that effect on new spindles. Don't know how a new user should be expected to know. My old Porter Cable 7518 router mentioned in original post ran from the get go at 21,000 RPM, never required break in, and it's bearings have been going strong for some 12 years now. So I didn't expect this.
Has anyone else been able to listen to the noise in the .zip file? mactec54 has been very helpful, but I'd appreciate a second opinion from another spindle owner. While I think it's bearings, I could still be wrong on that.
Not all need the break in, quite often most just rip it to max RPM and leave it there, some do the break in, which is not always needed, if it is the bearings you should at least run it up to the max
Your Porter Cable does not have bearings like what is in these spindles, which is a completely different design.
Re: Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
Hey HenjryJ just wondering if you still have the noise going on? My jianken sounded very similar when I first started running it in. Then it was perfect for many months, then just last night it started making that noise again.
Now I need to start looking into the carrier freq, shielding, etc etc.
Re: Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
crjohnson
Hey HenjryJ just wondering if you still have the noise going on? My jianken sounded very similar when I first started running it in. Then it was perfect for many months, then just last night it started making that noise again.
Now I need to start looking into the carrier freq, shielding, etc etc.
The carrier Frequency should be around 8 for your spindle and have a max of 10 this is normal for all of these High Speed Spindles
The correct 4 wire Shielded cable from the VFD Drive to the Spindle Motor is very important and must be installed correctly, having the Shields correctly Terminated.
Re: Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
Thanks Mactec, the link below is the cable I am running. I checked the shields and all the clamps are still tight and looking good. My VFD will only let me set the carrier freq. to a max of 8 though the manual says 16. I'll have to try find out why that is.
FYI I have never felt my 3.7kw VFD ever really get warm even on hot days.
https://www.cnc3d.com.au/high-quality-vfd-spindle-cable
https://cononmotor.com.au/wp-content...600-Manual.pdf
Re: Erratic Noise New 2.2KW Spindle Huanyang HY02D223B VFD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
crjohnson
For the carrier Frequency your manual says that 16 number is Model Dependent so it may be blocked above 8 which should be fine for your spindle
Your cable is very good so should not have any problems with that part of it, if you are having any noise problems then you will need a EMI Power Filter mounted close to the VFD Drives Power input, this is one of the best EMI Power Filters Mouser have them in stock.
TDK Lambda RSEN-20-30L
Mouser #:967-RSEN-2030L
