please, a few questions about using *.sdf

hello :)

PSELECT p1.min
PSELECT p2.min
END

how to restart at NAT07 inside p2 ?

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NP1 PSELECT p1.min
NP2 PSELECT p2.min
END

why is not possible to restart on NP2 ? i mean, is possible to use NP* inside the sdf, but i can't restart on it ?!

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is it possible to insert an M0 inside a sdf ?

besides PSELECT, VSET, END, what else is allowed inside the sdf ? kindly :)

hello, because of those restart issues, i replaced this :

Code:

---

    file.sdf

    PSELECT p1.min
    PSELECT p2.min

    END


---

with this

Code:

---

    file.min

    call p1.ssb
    call p2.ssb

    M02


---

i don't see the reason to use *.sdf, if is not possible to restart at a random operation, inside p2 for example ? programs are long ... kindly :)

Looking through the manual You have a couple of options. Option 1, press the cycle stop button on the control. This will make the machine stop after each separate program within the schedule. Option 2, Use the SP-No. Search button to go to the point you want to restart from.

I havn't done any of this yet as I don't even have a working machine yet.

The reason I am attempting to use schedule programs is to break very large CAM programs into usable chunks that the scheduler can load off of the floppy on the fly. This is my option to get around not having DNC-B on any of the machines here in the shop. A 600k+ CAM file doesn't fit into a 64k buffer very well. That is just my test to see if I can get the idea to work.

Dave in Ohio

Quote:

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Option 1, press the cycle stop button on the control

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i don't know if i have that button ? i have the green one ( play ) , feed-hold, step-by-step, /, m01 ... that's all :)

Quote:

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Option 2, Use the SP-No. Search button to go to the point you want to restart from

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you mean the block sequence counter ? like when restarting not at N002, but at number 750 ?

Cycle Stop is not a colored button. On the U10m control I am looking at it is 2 buttons to the right of Dry Run and Below the Block Skip Button. I don't see the button on the lathes here.

SP-No. Search is on the LCD screen right next to SP-Select, so it will be an F* button.

Dave in Ohio

hi, i have something like attached, is osp300 ... pls, can you spot it ?

I can't make it out. Looked at our LU15 with OSP700l and it on the little panel for the bar feeder next to system link.

Dave

CG is right. Cycle stop is next to Barfeed link button. It is possible to start inside either program. Use SP no search to restart to line number in schedule program. You can use M0 if desired. The sp select is actually calling a program so if you want to start inside of it you must call it up first. Just turn on single block and cycle start on the pselect block. Once it is called up, you can use traditional restart methods such as line number to jump ahead.

You want to use schedule programs because it loads and offloads programs which allows you to run more code than can fit in memory. It also gives you automatic counters as you run the schedule:

PSELECT KING,,,Q1
PSELECT ROOK,,,Q2
PSELECT PAWN,,,Q8
END

You get the idea?

The Control keys off of the M02 for such things as Load monitoring, alarm C and tool life management etc. so you always need to see M2 at the end of the program for these to work correctly.

If the control doesn’t see the M2 it will not consider the part complete and will try to re run the program until it does. The counter will not advance in the schedule program until it sees the M2.

Schedule programs kick butt over anyone else’s control so don’t be shy about this powerful tool. Avoid GOTO statements like the plague since you will run endlessly when the control should stop for something like a way lube alarm but never sees an M2. Not good.

Best regards,

hello mr Wizard, hello area-828 :) i don't know where are those "cycle stop" and " bar feed link" buttons; it is a genos with osp300l, pretty similar to the image in post #6

however, i extended the screen, and i found "schedule number search" ( image 01 ), and i searched a program; after that, just like you said, i pushed single block + cycle start, so to load it; and, after that i performed a normal restart ( image 02 )

so far, so good :) thank you ... i did not imagined that i have to load the program before restarting inside it; nice trick to load it by single_block + play + reset :)

Quote:

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You can use M0 if desired

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if i put an M0, like in image 3, then i get an error : image 4

to make it work, i create a simple program, only with M0 + M02 inside it, and i PSELECT it

Quote:

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The Control keys off of the M02

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if one of the programs do not have M02, then i receive error from image 5, so .... is ok i believe :)

Quote:

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You want to use schedule programs because it loads and offloads programs which allows you to run more code than can fit in memory

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i have used sdf on the lathe, because it was possible now to run 2 programs consecutively, having modified jaws; before, i needed to rechuck the part, for each program :)

so far, on osp300-lathe, i did not encountered a problem with memory; i don't have big programs, and the controller can handle only 2mb

but, on the mill, there were programs >2mb, but also, there is PSELECT A B S

i wonder why, on lathe, there is no A B S ? just another classic : team mill vs team lathe :)

Quote:

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CG is right

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yes, you know, you are always right :)

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things i don't like about sdf :
... spindle stops between programs
... there is a small delay between programs, during when the program is loaded, and this leads to visible downtime
... there are too many keystrokes required to re-start, involving selecting the program, etc
* since how i don't have a problem with program size ( at least so far ), on osp300, i believe that i will remain to the structure shared at post #2 / kindly :)

I believe that by changing parameter you can have “spindle not stop during M02”. Search in your spindle parameters.

If you scroll to a line in your schedule program and the hold in Interlock key while pressing cycle start, keystrokes are reduced.

This also makes possible having several different schedule programs in the same file and using it like a menu of programs.

Quote:

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If you scroll to a line in your schedule program and the hold in Interlock key while pressing cycle start, keystrokes are reduced

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hello again mr Wizard, it works also without ilk : i just selected the sdf file, scrolled down to 2nd program, and i pushed play ... however, even if ilk is used or not, if a 2nd restart is required, then is needed to reselect the sdf, so to clear the program that is loaded : for example, if there was a restart in 2nd program, and 2nd program remains loaded, and now is desired to restart inside 1st program, then is needed to flash away the 2nd program from the memory, and load instead the 1st program, and this can be done only by reselecting the sdf file ... so, there are less keystrokes, but repetability requires more keystrokes, in order to flash away the current loaded program ... of course, this is ok when memory is limited

Quote:

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I believe that by changing parameter you can have “spindle not stop during M02”. Search in your spindle parameters

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i tried a few, shared them in that marvelous new thread, but no duck; my god, some parameters really sound promising / kindly :)

Quote:

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PSELECT KING,,,Q1
PSELECT ROOK,,,Q2
PSELECT PAWN,,,Q8
END

---

hello mr wizard, i have seen that you like to share the chess sdf example, and recently i discovered that it actually works, thus there is no need to specify the '.min' extension

this code works ( it will execute each file, even if the *.min extension is not specified inside the *.sdf ) :

Code:

---


    PSELECT mr    ,,, Q1
    PSELECT wizard ,,, Q1
    PSELECT rock  ,,, Q2
    PSELECT paw    ,,, Q8

END

---

Quote:

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If the control doesn’t see the M2 it will not consider the part complete and will try to re run the program until it does. The counter will not advance in the schedule program until it sees the M2.

Schedule programs kick butt over anyone else’s control so don’t be shy about this powerful tool. Avoid GOTO statements like the plague since you will run endlessly when the control should stop for something like a way lube alarm but never sees an M2. Not good.

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what about looping the program with GOTO, and using chuck ilk, so to feed the material without stopping the spindle ? kindly :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deadlykitten

what about looping the program with GOTO, and using chuck ilk, so to feed the material without stopping the spindle ? kindly :)

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Machine User Parameter (Spindle)
The settings made on the POWER SEQUENCE parameter screen are explained below

5895-E P-303
SECTION 5 PARAMETER



No Spindle stop with M00/M01/M02/M30

Initial Setting

(No check mark)

It's in there...look again. Been there for decades.

hi mr wizard :) we talked about those parameters here : https://www.cnczone.com/forums/okuma...ram-ended.html

next code is stoping the spindle :
... image 01 , 02 : parameters
... image 03 : S load diagram shows that the spindle is stopped
* please, would you give that code a try ? maybe it behaves differently / kindly :)

Code:

---


[ united.sdf ]


    PSELECT test-s-stop ,,, Q3


END

[ test-s-stop.min ]

    G04 F1  ( if i remove this line, then rpm won't stop, but drop to circa 1000o/min, then back to 2000 )
    G50 S2000
    G00 X500 Z200
    G97 S2000 M03
    G04 F5


M02

---

Schedule programs can have 5 types of codes in them.
PSELECT
GOTO
IF
VSET
END

It's in the manual. Page one of "schedule programs".

I know for a fact that there's a parameter to prevent the spindle stopping and it absolutely works on a P100/200/200A/300/300A control.

Also, if you highlight that top right box on the P300 screen there, the one with the grayish pictures of the turret and the current conditions, you should get the option on an F key to make that animated simulation, though some of the early P300's didn't have this. If the machine is new enough (2015 maybe?) there will also be a "scale up" function key which will make the animation full screen but have the machine positions in the top right corner and the program in the lower right. FYI.

another thing that doesn't work properly without the schedule is the N/C Operate Monitor which is basically your parts counter. You can try to make it work through some extensive macro-ing of the program, but i've found that as mentioned, the schedule is much more powerful than an IF/GOTO loop and causes fewer issues in the long run once everyone is used to using it. In my experience and opinion.

There is also an example of using USER TASK logic inside a schedule program in the manual under "schedule programs".

I think the only big difference is that N lines must be numeric, not alpha-numeric, but that's from memory and i cannot find a specific note on it.

Also, ideally you aren't constantly restarting a program. If you have to restart a machine that often, you may want to rethink your machining strategy.

and the button they're referring to is labeled, on your image, "barfeeder/loader cycle stop". this will cause the schedule to stop after each .min execution. Then you'd do your thing, press cycle start and off you'd go carrying on within the schedule. It is basically on or off, so if the LED is lit, it will stop after each cycle. is there a barfeeder/loader attached to this machine? Does the machine run 2 parts continuously without needing you to press cycle start while using a schedule program? if not they may have a jumper on the machine which needs to be removed putting 24V to the cycle stop circuit even though the button isn't pressed. Just a thought.

Quote:

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Also, if you highlight that top right box on the P300 screen there, the one with the grayish pictures of the turret and the current conditions, you should get the option on an F key to make that animated simulation, though some of the early P300's didn't have this.

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hey teahole, how are you ? please, can you share a printscreen ?

Quote:

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I know for a fact that there's a parameter to prevent the spindle stopping and it absolutely works on a P100/200/200A/300/300A control.

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so far i could not keep the spindle running; my trials & results are at post 14

Quote:

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another thing that doesn't work properly without the schedule is the N/C Operate Monitor which is basically your parts counter. You can try to make it work through some extensive macro-ing of the program, but i've found that as mentioned, the schedule is much more powerful than an IF/GOTO loop and causes fewer issues in the long run once everyone is used to using it. In my experience and opinion.

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depends on setup, my dear tea-hole : a while ago, i was messing with many bars, with equal length : last part was machined differently, puller was skiped, and some preparatory operations, for the next part, were also skiped; this was done in order to machine as many parts as possible from a single bar, and all the logic was done through some conditionals & variable based counters

on another setup, i was feeding the material after machining 4 parts, thus 1st part was machined with overhang, and last part was machined near the spindle; through conditionals, the cutting specs were decreased for parts 1 & 2, and increased for parts 3 & 4

i am not talking about short term setups, few parts, but looong ones ...

actually, this is only the begining, because, on such long setups, appears a phenomen : unitar productivity variation, thus sometimes crafting much more parts then other times, during same period; here, you need monitoring tools, that are way beyond okuma's default counter; let's say that you know that one day has 10%lower machining time, but it delivers 5%more parts, and no one knows nothing ?! in that moment, you may realize that you need monitoring tools :) in short, is needed to analyze the downtime factors, and rush the setup, in a temperate manner;i am no longer looking into mac-man data, but into a base-line comparison chart

of course, such things are available from okuma, there are 4.0 managements, and i believe you know that :) truth is that there are customers that buy such stuff, expecting to increase their productivity once implemented, but, in reality, it only shows what they allready ( should ) know; yes, the spindle is busy, i am so relaxed, but the overide is sometimes at 5%, and i am still ok, because i don't know that / kindly :)

I'm not arguing with you.
All i'm saying is that for 99% of the world, this:
PSELECT A.MIN,,,Q6
END

is easier to use to get all the functions like the parts counter

Attachment 425834

and cycle stop button

Attachment 425842

to work.

Can it be done otherwise? Yes.

But it's easier to use the schedule program.

Also, the .SDF works on machining centers too so if you have any part programs which exceed the machine buffer of whatever, based on the control you're on, you can schedule different tools as different .min programs to get around the 4mb program buffer limit (depending on control for size of buffer). Or any pallet pool machines, or robots trying to use program select BCD or whatever. I have a myriad of reasons to use .sdf.

also, the screen i'm referring to looks like this:

Attachment 425844

Quote:

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I'm not arguing with you.
All i'm saying is that for 99% of the world, this:
PSELECT A.MIN,,,Q6
END

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yes teahole, and 99% of the macro guys can deliver a g-code counter :) but the osp300 is so " open posibilites "

just one more thing : i know that using sdf is common, okuma's die hard, and old machines with low memory are still there

for your reference : if you try to minimize the execution time of your programs, please be aware that looping with "goto" is faster then using " pselect *.min ,,, Q ", with about 0.5seconds/loop; to gain even more time, try to exclude preambul codes/operations from the loop

such an amount does not matter for loooong programs, but it does for short ones, especially for ctr-finetuned codes / kindly :)


ps : next, i will share the test programs :
... b1 is looped directly from the sdf file
... b2 is using goto
... b3 is using a soubroutine

recorded times ( ms ) :
... b1 52596
... b2 46724
... b3 46674
* times for b2 & b3 are pretty equal, while b1 performs with 5seconds slower

Code:

---


[ b1.min ]

    G50 S2000
    NOEX LVXP = VPVLX-VZOFX LVZP = 350
    G00 X+LVXP Z+LVZP
    T100 G97 S1200 M03 M42 G00 X-350 Z-200 M63 G91
    G01 Z-10 F0.22 G95
        Z+0.3
    G00 Z+9.7
    G00 X+LVXP Z+LVZP M05 M63 G90
    M02

[ b2.min ]

    NOEX V3 = 0
    N1 NOEX
    G50 S2000
    NOEX LVXP = VPVLX-VZOFX LVZP = 350
    G00 X+LVXP Z+LVZP
    T100 G97 S1200 M03 M42 G00 X-350 Z-200 M63 G91
    G01 Z-10 F0.22 G95
        Z+0.3
    G00 Z+9.7
    G00 X+LVXP Z+LVZP M05 M63 G90
    NOEX V3 = V3 + 1
    IF [ V3 LT 10 ] N1
    M02

[ b3.min ]

    CALL OSUB Q10
    M02


OSUB
    G50 S2000
    NOEX LVXP = VPVLX-VZOFX LVZP = 350
    G00 X+LVXP Z+LVZP
    T100 G97 S1200 M03 M42 G00 X-350 Z-200 M63 G91
    G01 Z-10 F0.22 G95
        Z+0.3
    G00 Z+9.7
    G00 X+LVXP Z+LVZP M05 M63 G90
RTS

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all those programs, are called from a sdf file, and the overall execution time is being calculated :

Code:

---


 [ united.sdf ]

    VSET V1 = VDIN [ 1000 ]
    PSELECT b1 ,,, Q10
    VSET V1 = VDIN [ 1000 ] - V1
    PSELECT odd


    VSET V1 = VDIN [ 1000 ]
    PSELECT b2
    VSET V1 = VDIN [ 1000 ] - V1
    PSELECT odd


    VSET V1 = VDIN [ 1000 ]
    PSELECT b3
    VSET V1 = VDIN [ 1000 ] - V1
    PSELECT odd


END

[ odd.min ]

    FWRITC tempo.txt;A
    NOEX PUT V1
    WRITE C M02


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