Retrofit cincinatti arrow 500
Hey guys, got a arrow 500, I brought 2 years ago, wasn't running then, and the machine had been sitting for 8 years prior to that, the machine is in mint condition, hardly been used. Anyway I fired it up today and and it said battery memory failure, the screen displayed press any key to continue, so I did that and nothing happened, I removed the batteries, and they had leaked everywhere.
I've been using my little tormach for many years and like the mach3 system, ease of tool setting, digitising etc etc, plus I know it of the back of my hand,
can I retrofit the arrow 500 to run mach3, I was reading through the mach3 config, and got to details about the servo's, as far as I'm aware the arrow 500 has ac servos they're dutymax ms servos 115msa040200ag
What's your opinion guys, I want the tool changer to work, can it be done
Re: Retrofit cincinatti arrow 500
From the info I have, the MACH3 software and hardware do not support much I/O that is required with a complex CNC machine and tool changer. It sounds like you have a CT control. You can change the batteries and re-load the software to get it running.
Mike cncmachineservices (dot) com
Re: Retrofit cincinatti arrow 500
"From the info I have, the MACH3 software and hardware do not support much I/O that is required with a complex CNC machine and tool changer."
Not true, there are lots of hardware options which would make Mach3 I/O options virtually limitless, definitiely within and beyond the realm of any VMC and toolchanger. For one, Modbus can be used with Mach3 and supporting hardware. Brains and visual basic scripts also supporting within the Mach software end of the equation.
enhanced, if only battery loss and parameters lost, it would likely be the shortest path to a running machine to get the Cincinatti controls working. Most industrial controls are fairly robust and if not broke, quite a bit of work to change for 'familiarity' of the Mach3 screens. Another controller helps one enhance their understanding of the universal aspects of the tasks, and love or hate the nuances of specific implementations. But I also understand the commonality or likeness argument to reduce operator error when moving from one machine to the next.
But of course Mach3 could be made to work with this, depending on your comfort and experience level, it will take some time and is no small task. But, willingly you can eat an elephant one bite at a time.
Re: Retrofit cincinatti arrow 500
We helped someone put a mach3 based cnc on their arrow 500. we supplied new servo motors, drives, cables, spindle drive. Mach3 was machmotion.com.
If you want this running with least headaches and in shortest time, for sure buy a couple batteries and get present stuff working. Time? with help from folks who know the CT system, like likely Mike from post 2 - be running in my guess 3 days.
Want to put on mach3? Figure on about 6 months to get it installed, programmed, and running. Then figure another 6 months to get the tool changer PLC programmed, installed, integrated with mach3, and running also. Then another year to work out all the small noise quirks.
Re: Retrofit cincinatti arrow 500
Look up Pete's cincinnatti 500 adventure and read through it. It contains a bunch of information just not a step by step. He is making money with his machine and all but the tool changer is working.
Anyway, maybe worth looking.
Bill
Re: Retrofit cincinatti arrow 500
Bill,
I considered referencing or linking him to Pete's thread as well, but since he went LinuxCNC route (which is what I would likely do as well) I thought it might be a little more confusing. But there is a lot of pertinent information for retrofit in general.
So here it is http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cincin...adventure.html
Besides, my opinion based on writing style and context, Pete is a great and amiable guy. A good and entertaining read.
Re: Retrofit cincinatti arrow 500
Thanks for the heads up guys.
Mike I've sent an email.
I was reading through the manuals for the machine unable to find any information in there in regards to loading the software.
When I turned on the machine, it had error on the display, battery failure, it displayed push any key to continue, I did that, nothing happened, I couldn't even get the "caps lock light" to display, any ideas guys, is the keypad dead as well.
Re: Retrofit cincinatti arrow 500
Well if you want to try to fix your original control that is up to you. I had basically zero luck with mine and finally bailed out and sold off all the internals of the electronics enclosure. Honestly I basically gutted the entire machine and started over. I built up a custom PC with Solid State hard drive and bought all brand new servos and drives by TECO complete with brand new cabling and premade milspec barrel connectors etc.. This is my second retrofit and my first with a toolchanger so it has taken me some time to get it to where it is and it is still not completed. The tool changer is still not functioning altho every part of the pneumatics and electronics is wired and working individually. I am just trying to get the programming side of the conversion completed to make the toolchanger and spindle indexing working. I recently got rigid tapping working and mounted up the spindle encoder. The rest is all programming which is NOT my strong suit. I am quite pleased with the system now and the machine is very reliable and makes some beautiful parts. Once I get the toolchanger working it will be amazing. Plus adding fourth or even fifth axis is pretty straightforward down the road as well as probing.
I am not the fastest at this stuff so don't judge the time I have spent by the difficulty of the build. Someone with more motivation and skills would be probably done with it a long time ago. The best part of the linuxCNC equation is the almost around the clock support from both their online forum as well as the Internet relay chat at #Freenode #linuxCNC. Lots of very knowledgeable folks out there and lots of guys doing builds on machines that are everything from five axis complex builds to table top routers running steppers. Having built a Mach3 machine and now a LinuxCNC machine I would definitely recommend the LinuxCNC especially for a commercial machine like the arrow 500. It is not simple or easy to build a CNC retrofit on a commercial machining center but the linuxCNC and MESAnet boards make a lot of it relatively straighforward. The programming part is what I have trouble with but that is my limitation not the systems. It can basically be made to control about any machine you could imagine. Mach3 in my view is not a commercial control. If you wanted to run MACH3 the only way I would consider it is to go with Machmotions control unit and use mach3 for the front end. LinuxCNC is dead reliable in my use of it for awhile now and it is free and open source so anyone can look under the hood and make it work for what they need. Good luck with your retrofit.
If you need any help with the original control I MAY have the information given to me about it from when I had to reload the parameters and get it working when I first bought it. Peace
Pete
Re: Retrofit cincinatti arrow 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pete from TN
Well if you want to try to fix your original control that is up to you. I had basically zero luck with mine and finally bailed out and sold off all the internals of the electronics enclosure. Honestly I basically gutted the entire machine and started over. I built up a custom PC with Solid State hard drive and bought all brand new servos and drives by TECO complete with brand new cabling and premade milspec barrel connectors etc.. This is my second retrofit and my first with a toolchanger so it has taken me some time to get it to where it is and it is still not completed. The tool changer is still not functioning altho every part of the pneumatics and electronics is wired and working individually. I am just trying to get the programming side of the conversion completed to make the toolchanger and spindle indexing working. I recently got rigid tapping working and mounted up the spindle encoder. The rest is all programming which is NOT my strong suit. I am quite pleased with the system now and the machine is very reliable and makes some beautiful parts. Once I get the toolchanger working it will be amazing. Plus adding fourth or even fifth axis is pretty straightforward down the road as well as probing.
I am not the fastest at this stuff so don't judge the time I have spent by the difficulty of the build. Someone with more motivation and skills would be probably done with it a long time ago. The best part of the linuxCNC equation is the almost around the clock support from both their online forum as well as the Internet relay chat at #Freenode #linuxCNC. Lots of very knowledgeable folks out there and lots of guys doing builds on machines that are everything from five axis complex builds to table top routers running steppers. Having built a Mach3 machine and now a LinuxCNC machine I would definitely recommend the LinuxCNC especially for a commercial machine like the arrow 500. It is not simple or easy to build a CNC retrofit on a commercial machining center but the linuxCNC and MESAnet boards make a lot of it relatively straighforward. The programming part is what I have trouble with but that is my limitation not the systems. It can basically be made to control about any machine you could imagine. Mach3 in my view is not a commercial control. If you wanted to run MACH3 the only way I would consider it is to go with Machmotions control unit and use mach3 for the front end. LinuxCNC is dead reliable in my use of it for awhile now and it is free and open source so anyone can look under the hood and make it work for what they need. Good luck with your retrofit.
If you need any help with the original control I MAY have the information given to me about it from when I had to reload the parameters and get it working when I first bought it. Peace
Pete
Cheers Pete, I know all about your adventure, I've been reading, you've been through a lot....what a story, and I've got 20 pages left to read. And I know everything about you now.
So u know a little about me, I own Enhanced Automotive here in Australia, and I race Australian super bikes, if make a lot of car and motorcycle parts on my cnc already.
After reading 60 odd pages, it's given me a different perspective, and being in Australia, there is no one that can come out and get the machine running.
I've decided to ditch the mach3 idea, and ditch the entire std control techniques getting up and running, I've completely stripped the full enclosure, and sending of to get re-painted, to suit my workshop equipment.
The only difference is I'm wanting to use the original servo motors and drivers, as they've had stuff all use.
I'm going to finish reading your adventure thread, then if you don't mind guiding me through bits and pieces along the way.
Regards Brad
Re: Retrofit cincinatti arrow 500
Now I'm interested in what Lomach did with his adventure, as by the sounds of it, I want to similar conversion, and I would like the tool changer to work
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Retrofit cincinatti arrow 500
Hi Enhanced
Mine was very similar to Petes conversion but I did mine two years ago. I bought the machine with a blown y axis servo drive and stripped it right down with the intentions of retrofitting it. I replaced the x and y servo motors and drives but kept the z axis due to a lack of funds and went down the mesa 5i20 route. The toolchanger works fine and is a very long winded to explain but I use subprograms to change each tool. For example "o<tool8> call" brings in tool 8 etc. All of the fail safes are in place to check each stage of the toolchange and the machine has been working nearly 10 hours a day 7 days a week for the last 18 months. It was a steep learning curve but well worth it. Let me know if you want any specific information and I will try to pass it on. I also had it powder coated a dark grey as it wasnt in the best condition when I had it.Attachment 252190
Re: Retrofit cincinatti arrow 500
Lomach,
Do u have a build thread on here, where I can read through and get advise for the retrofit, or even a email with what exactly you did to get it all up and running.
