(Live) VDI tool holders

My shop is vetting replacing several old and worn tool holders for our aging Captain, We currently have Eppinger live tool holders, two of them purchased within the last year. Even on the new ones, the bearings seem to be going south already, and I only have one tool holder I deem ridged enough for milling with a .5" end mill. We also have several static holders for round and square tools, that are worn well beyond preference, the newer Square tool Eppinger's are best I've used, but the live tools seem to lack quality, and it's quite awkward to change the tool they hold.

What is other peoples experience with VDI tool holders, what products are good, which ones should be avoided? If this goes through it will be quite an investment, and although it is not my money, I would like to get the best bang for the buck. After all, it is myself that will have to deal the result.

(On a side note, is it possible to retrofit our turret with one of a newer, better design?)

Just FYI, ive rebuilt many live tools using a heavy black snotty lithium grease(CV joint grease) instead of the Klubber they like to use. The light grease seems to wash out quick if any hydraulic oil or coolant gets in them. Takes longer to run them in, but i have 3 at one shop thats been running daily for the past 4 years without issues.

If you're gonna waste the money retrofitting a turret, consider something like this :Turrets - Chevin Tools USA

Personally, if I were even considering it, I'd just buck up the money for an lb3000m. There are more than a million reasons to update. Well, there's a lot anyway.

I have a few Eppinger vdi live tool holders (ER40 collet chucks). I got our maintenance guys to refurbish with new bearings and new seals. definitely an improvement and should be good for a few more years.

Replacing the bearings as often as every year but as little as every ten is pretty much a typical VDI problem. Upgrading the machine or turret is probably best bet if you don't want to do that. Brand is irrelevant. Bearing size is the issue. They're just that small. Push on them, with any real force, and they become ticking time bombs. Antique design in a modern world.

Honestly, the only way around not rebuilding live tools is to not have them. All live tools fail, I don't care what brand, or who's machine. They all fail from either coolant contamination or leaking turret hydraulics. only way to get around it is to buy a machine like the intergrex style.

So, you can replace the undersized antiquated bearings in a VDI, replace the turret with something like the Chevin tools piece, replace the lathe with another live tool lathe with holders designed for milling, or buy a muli-function machine like the Multus, (this is an Okuma forum, not Mazak), in order of cost.up to you.

I say integrex simply because Mazak had it down before mori and okuma both, I'm not a mazak fan, but they did get those right.

Our clients use Epinger and Kintek mostly. I'm very surprised about quality claims. Maybe the same brand toolholders are produced in different factories ?

I'm sure eppinger and kintex are as reputable as Von ruden and su-matic, but its just the physics of small bearings.

Eppinger's Preci-flex offers the best bearings - linear roller contact, and offer a 2 year warranty on the units. They may give you the quicker change you want as well as longer life. They've been the longest lasting we've tried and we've tried Command, Alps (okuma std.) , Sandvik, WTO, Von Ruden, & GMB.

Like everyone else, they will of course fail after some time. Routine maintenance will help the life.

Best regards,

PS> Turrets can be retrofitted to something like KM or Capto, but get out your wallet! You'd be better off to upgrade to a servo turret machine since that can't be retrofitted.

The best is not empirical data. I cannot agree that eppinger is the only company using what I assume you mean, cylindrical roller bearings. I also cannot agree that cylindrical roller bearings are the best for this application, though they are by and large the most widely used. They, however, are not the weak point I refer to, sort of. I'm referring to the bearings inside the input shaft housing.
I do agree that the best thing is to get a new machine, but there needs to be a happy medium between cost and payoff.
As well, there is no magic pill tool company. Some are built better than others, but no matter what, there are dozens of factors that cause failure that may give one company an advantage in certain scenarios, with losses in other scenarios. Last, I believe Okuma doesn't have a "standard" tool company. I think it is up to the distributor and the customer to decide which live tool company to use. Maybe I'm wrong, but...

[QUOTE=OkumaWiz;

Like everyone else, they will of course fail after some time. Routine maintenance will help the life.
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Totally agree!