Mach issue

I had a very strange mach issue yesterday and wondering if anyone knows what happened. I was doing a pretty long cut and around line 7500 I had a tool change. I changed the tool but also had to put some bolts in to hold the parts to the jig so it took about 5 minutes. When I tried to continue, mach just sat there. Moved one line and stopped. No coolant came on, spindle didn't start, nothing. I had to shut down and restart and everything was fine.

I had an issue earlier in the week where it seemed to pause between lines for just a split second. I was doing a helix down and it stopped every 180 degrees. Restarted and everything was back to normal.

Thanks - Keith

Keith,

Sadly, bizarre, unexplainable, irreproducible anomalies are just part of life with Mach3 for many of us. That's why I tossed Mach3 several years ago. I could go days with no problems, then have a day where there was one problem after another. But, since switching to KFlop several years ago, all that is in the past.

For the problem you had, I often found simply re-loading the g-code, and selecting the line to start from usually got me going again, without having to re-start Mach3.

Regards,
Ray L.

Yeah I tried that and Mach seems to not like starting from certain lines of gcode and I can't figure out which ones. I did that an even though it was sitting at the right x,y it took off in the +x -y direction. Mach is a PITA!

I never had good luck using "Run From Here", but I could use "Set Next Line" and just manually make sure any modals were setup properly (position machine, make sure spindle/coolant are on, G0/1/2/3 properly set, etc.) before hitting CycleStart, and rarely had problems.

Regards,
Ray L.

I've had the occasional unexplainable glitch. Mach seems to lose communication with the bob. The only way to recover is rebooting. I then use the "run from here" just before the last tool change so the z offset is synced back up.

We have heard of a few instances of loss of communication using the parallel ports. It was a very elusive problem since it didn't happen very often or consistently. In the instances we did hear about loss of communication, it always seemed to be related, while setting "idle" for a period of time. After researching the situation with the mother board manufacturer, (this was a limited and useless response from them) we have come to the conclusion that it was more of a driver glitch in Mach3 using the parallel port. Every new mother board release had new BIOS drivers, so configuration control was difficult at best.

We have since switched over to the Ethernet Smooth Stepper (ESS) as a standard configuration in every mill. Ethernet communication between Mach3 and the ESS is a much better choice and other advantages are faster G-code processing with no noticeable hesitations between commands such as the time crunching G02 and G03 arc commands. Certainly with the faster operational speeds of our Torus PRO and Pulsar using servo motors, the need for the ESS controller is essential.

Many of the last mills shipped out have pre mounted holes and stand offs to easily add the ESS device. It is an easy kit to install.

Regards,
Novakon Team

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Novakon

We have heard of a few instances of loss of communication using the parallel ports. It was a very elusive problem since it didn't happen very often or consistently. In the instances we did hear about loss of communication, it always seemed to be related, while setting "idle" for a period of time. After researching the situation with the mother board manufacturer, (this was a limited and useless response from them) we have come to the conclusion that it was more of a driver glitch in Mach3 using the parallel port. Every new mother board release had new BIOS drivers, so configuration control was difficult at best.

We have since switched over to the Ethernet Smooth Stepper (ESS) as a standard configuration in every mill. Ethernet communication between Mach3 and the ESS is a much better choice and other advantages are faster G-code processing with no noticeable hesitations between commands such as the time crunching G02 and G03 arc commands. Certainly with the faster operational speeds of our Torus PRO and Pulsar using servo motors, the need for the ESS controller is essential.

Many of the last mills shipped out have pre mounted holes and stand offs to easily add the ESS device. It is an easy kit to install.

Regards,
Novakon Team

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This has long been a problem of mine. I sent out an e-mail to you two weeks ago (you responded), I gotta try to get this ESS installed (I believe it's similar to the K-flop?). It's been a problem for me and worries me in crucial machining operations.

I have also reason to believe the 24 vdc relay is faulty which causes some strange and scary moments. Luckily, I have spotted these on Ebay and will in fact purchase them today.


Having purchased a machine last July, (Torus Servo Pro) might my machine have these standoffs? Best place to look in the cabinet would be where?


Don't mean to Hi-jack, just letting you know Keith you are not alone on Mach3 and Machine movement. It always scares me that when I jog, if my machine moved in/out of sync in relation to my DRO. The consequences are obvious but it has happened before and it's painful.

-Jason

When I was developing my 2010 Screenset, my main beta tester would occasionally see this issue.
It appeared to be a random occurence. While Mach3 was stopped for a tool change, waiting for the the user to hit Cycle Start.

I don't think I've ever heard this issue reported by anyone else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SpeedsCustom

This has long been a problem of mine. I sent out an e-mail to you two weeks ago (you responded), I gotta try to get this ESS installed (I believe it's similar to the K-flop?). It's been a problem for me and worries me in crucial machining operations.

I have also reason to believe the 24 vdc relay is faulty which causes some strange and scary moments. Luckily, I have spotted these on Ebay and will in fact purchase them today.


Having purchased a machine last July, (Torus Servo Pro) might my machine have these standoffs? Best place to look in the cabinet would be where?


Don't mean to Hi-jack, just letting you know Keith you are not alone on Mach3 and Machine movement. It always scares me that when I jog, if my machine moved in/out of sync in relation to my DRO. The consequences are obvious but it has happened before and it's painful.

-Jason

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Hi Jason,

The Kflop is a different animal. It doesn't use Mach3 at all and also doesn't have the conversational software like Mach3 has. Ray swears by it, (not at it) so it must be good, but not user friendly to the novice user. The ESS is a controller used in symphony with Mach3 and the BOB. Communication is Ethernet so no more parallel protocols from the mother board.

Your chassis is ready to go, but you will have to look behind the BOB to see if the standoffs were included. If not, there are 4 "tick" marks on the polyurethane chassis boards for the stand off location. We supply every thing needed in the kit for the ESS upgrade.

BTW....if you have bought 24vdc relays, they will not work. The relays on the DIN rail are 12vdc. These are activated when the power comes on when the BOB is activated suppling the 240vac to the drivers.

Regards to all,
Novakon Team

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Novakon

The Kflop is a different animal. It doesn't use Mach3 at all and also doesn't have the conversational software like Mach3 has. Ray swears by it, (not at it) so it must be good, but not user friendly to the novice user.

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Actually, the KFlop is quite capable of running under Mach3. But, it does take considerably more work to configure a complete, working system, and, since some basic things, like spindle speed control, probing, limits, etc. are actually handled directly by the KFlop rather than by the PC, it is quite a different beast from the ESS. This means many common operations, like probing, that can be handled with VB scripts when using the PP or ESS, will not work with the KFlop. From the user standpoint, the ESS is very much like the PP, while the KFlop is nothing like the PP.

For me, the major attraction of the KFlop was in being able to eliminate Mach3 entirely, as it was the source of most of the problems I had over many years. I went an extra step and wrote my own CNC controller application that runs on top of the KFlop DLLs, and have had zero problems since I first put it into service about 2-1/2 years ago. The few times the machine appeared to mis-behave, a little investigation showed that the fault was actually due to user error.

Regards,
Ray L.

Novakon,

I will verify the "Tick" marks in my cabinet. So far, I typically would have to "clear" the charge pump issue by disconnecting the 12 volts powering the BOB. It works 90% of the time, not always.

Unfortunately, the relay on my DIN rail is 24 VDC- OMRON LY2N-J: 10 A 110 VAC : 1/2 HP 120 VAC : 12 A 240 VAC (The coil inside the Relay says 12 VDC though).

Ray,

I'm looking for a reliable unit, one in which I do not need to configure without breaking my back. Obviously I have issues with the BOB, MACH3 and the Relay and some other electrical nuances. If the ESS provides smoother conversation with Mach3, I'm all for it. If the K-flop gives me great look ahead and reliability during long machining operations with large code, then this something I want to pursue as well.

I'm currently not using probes or really a lot of features that I should be using, maybe I don't need too. My main concern is consistency between set-up jobs, tool changes etc.

For instance, you wrote your own software...for me, I do not want to do this nor am I capable of doing it. So I'd like to continue to use Mach3 as the interface just with better hardware configured in my cabinet and without actually causing more problems.

Thanks all and again, sorry to hi-jack this thread.

-Jason

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SpeedsCustom

Ray,

I'm looking for a reliable unit, one in which I do not need to configure without breaking my back. Obviously I have issues with the BOB, MACH3 and the Relay and some other electrical nuances. If the ESS provides smoother conversation with Mach3, I'm all for it. If the K-flop gives me great look ahead and reliability during long machining operations with large code, then this something I want to pursue as well.

I'm currently not using probes or really a lot of features that I should be using, maybe I don't need too. My main concern is consistency between set-up jobs, tool changes etc.

For instance, you wrote your own software...for me, I do not want to do this nor am I capable of doing it. So I'd like to continue to use Mach3 as the interface just with better hardware configured in my cabinet and without actually causing more problems.

Thanks all and again, sorry to hi-jack this thread.

-Jason

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I really can't say whether Mach3+KFlop is any more reliable than Mach3+ESS, since I've never run Mach3+KFlop for any length of time. I set it up on my previous machine when I first got the KFlop, just becuase that was the path of least resistance, and let me play with the KFlop more quickly. But, I never did any significant with with that configuration. I do know KMotionCNC, the KFlop controller application, is very reliable, but not terribly full-featured. If you just need to run G-code, without macros, brains, custom screens, and all the other Mach3 stuff, KMotionCNC is not a bad way to go.

However..... Getting a KFlop to do anything at all REQUIRES writing C code. Axis configuration is handled by user-proivided C-code running on the KFlop DSP, as is spindle speed control, limits, and other very basic functions. It's not complicated code, but if you're not familiar with C, it can be daunting. And the KFlop itself has a learning curve. There is a lot of documentation, but it is not terribly well organized, and some of it is not clearly written. OTOH, support from the designer, Tom Kerekes, is excellent, through the Yahoo forum. I could never have written my application without his help.

BTW - I'm not aware of any problems with the new Novakon BOB, once past the initial installation and configuration.

Regards,
Ray L.

Hi Keith, I have seen the same issue on my mill from time to time. Mill is a NM-200 Pro. Although I have changed the spindle motor, VFD, drivers and most other electronics, the computer is what came with the mill and is running windows 7. If I start the mill and run a short program, 20 min's or less and then it sit's idles for more then 20 min's, it locks up completely and needs a full reboot. It will occasionally lock during a program run but usually will come back and continue but sometimes doesn't and has to be re booted. I have tried a couple different versions of mach with the same results.
I run Mach3 on my lathe but with windows XP and it has NEVER locked or even glitched and it has over 6000 HRs of run time on it.
I believe it's an issue with Mach and windows 7, but I just haven't had time to find out for sure. I know when I first got the NM-200, it had VM loaded on it as well and if VM was open, mach went for a loop.
By the way, if you do have to restart mach part way through a program, once your off sets are re set, do a "run from" the last tool change, take the tool out of the spindle and let it move to the appropriate position, then when you click run again, it will stop for the tool change.
Ray

My NM-200 has the same issue from time to time. Controller is the CD-100 box. All axes plus spindle stop. I never need to reboot PC, just stop/restart Mach3 after recording the 3 axes coords and line#.

After restart and before moving axes I set the DROs, then find a safe "run to here" line in the program, usually the previous clearance move.

I recently had a new BOB installed, and that has reduced the number of occurences.

One of the first tests I did with the new Pulsar was to let it sit powered up all day. If that had been the Torus, It would have at least set an Estop condition or locked up Mach 3 at least once and maybe twice. It quit doing that during a run once I installed a new X axis home switch, but still occurred when idle for a time.
The Pulsar doesn't do that. It has the Ethernet Smooth Stepper and I'm pretty sure that is what fixed it.
Thanks a bunch for improving your products every chance you get, John. It shows. :)

I've had random situatios where simply rebooting didn't work, but actually shutting off the power to the mill and restarting fixed everything. As Ray said, I've had days where I ran 10 hours without any issues. Other days not so good. I also have situations where after 4 or 5 hours, the axis will continue to move after I stopped turning the pendant jog wheel, as if the commands are "qued up".
I got the new bob today, so it will be interasting to see if that changes anything. Novakon support has been great BTW.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LAKESNAKE

I've had random situatios where simply rebooting didn't work, but actually shutting off the power to the mill and restarting fixed everything. As Ray said, I've had days where I ran 10 hours without any issues. Other days not so good. I also have situations where after 4 or 5 hours, the axis will continue to move after I stopped turning the pendant jog wheel, as if the commands are "qued up".
I got the new bob today, so it will be interasting to see if that changes anything. Novakon support has been great BTW.

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Lake, I also got the new BOB and am waiting to install. I am very eager to leave my machine and hoping it does not lock-up after 20 mins, I have big hopes for the B.O.B!

-Jason

Loosing communication while sitting idle is definitely a Mach3-windows 7 problem. XP machines do not do it. I have a few of each. I much prefer to run parallel ports on my machines. Regarding the Windows 7 problem, here is what i have tried. Remove bluetooth for program transfers. Set all sleep/ hibernate and screensavers to 0 or off. Including monitor and hard drive. Any kind of network connection wifi or bluetooth can cause random errors with mach3.

Well, it is a rather important task for everybody, so you will need to provide more details before the start of work.