Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
I have an RF45 that I bought from another member here and have a few problems. It's outfitted with 3 of the leadshine ES-DH1208 drives and the ES-MH23480 motors. Every since I got the machine home and started messing with it, it's randomly faulted the Z driver with the ER020 code. Which, I believe to be, missed steps?
A little backstory - when I got the machine home and set it up, it had a HUGE amount of slack in the Z gibs/dovetails. After some shimming, that's when the faulting started pretty often. So, I took the machine apart and started investigating the tapered dovetail problems these machines are known for. Sure enough, Z had some pretty good tapering at the top where the faults seemed to occur the most. I ended up hand lapping the ways/dovetails and got them reasonably good where I could slide the head up and down by hand with the gibs relatively tight. I figured this would be the end of the faulting, but it wasn't.
I did some more testing last night and wrote a ~5000line warm up routine that mainly consisted of G0 moves in all 3 axes. This time, the Z didn't fault first, but the Y did ,which has happened before, but only once or twice. The motors got pretty warm at around 100* as tested with a temp gun. The y, when it faulted, was 120*. I suspect the continual rapid travers was to blame.
Either way, the Z faults often. Sometimes it's as soon as you hit cycle start or sometimes it's been running for 10-15-30 minutes. I don't recall that it's ever been when the head was moving DOWN, but always up, or at the very least a high percentage of the time the faults happen moving up.
I don't have a counterweight on the head, but that's on the to-do list for the head. May try that this weekend. Outside of that, I guess it's possible that the Z motor is undersized for the load? At that point, I only have one other motor option and that's to run the bigger motor @ about 400$, or possibly switch to a plain stepper.
Suggestions???
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
Hi,
Well, I may not be able to offer much help, but I'm about to go down the same road you are and figured i'd try.
The error looks to be position limit errors, based on the manual. Links provided if you don't have it. The pdf from leadshine doesn't work for some reason, but the other site does.
If you haven't, you may try to download the software, connect the drive to the PC via serial,(may have to make a firewire to serial cable, pinouts are provided in spec sheet, or buy a cable) and run some tests and look at what its configured for. You can also watch the following errors. At least it will give you some confirmation of whats going on.
I actually was looking at your machine when it was for sale, but already have a MD001 ready to go on the stand. Long road to CNC though. After seeing that, it made me curious about the closed loop stepper idea, so i bought one of their ES-D1008 drives to test using my own stepper/encoder. Though its not on a machine. I was high thinking about going this route, but just wasn't sure how well they would work on this machine. I PMed the original owner about it, but got no response. So, not to hijack your thread, but how do they perform other than the Z?
Also, has slowing the up/down speed had any affect?
Hope you get some better results.
jon
http://leadshineusa.com/productdetai...odel=ES-DH1208
Leadshine ES-DH1208 easy servo/closed loop stepper drive
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
Turbo!
Does the RF-45 have an oiling system? I had fault issues with my old machine until I got the lube system installed. There are many threads covering that type of modificaiton!
Good Luck.
Bill
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bill south
Turbo!
Does the RF-45 have an oiling system? I had fault issues with my old machine until I got the lube system installed. There are many threads covering that type of modificaiton!
Good Luck.
Bill
Thanks Bill, it sure does have an automatic oiler on it - I think it cycles every 20min or so.
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
it appears my post never made it, so this one is a test.
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
Quote:
Originally Posted by
commandme
it appears my post never made it, so this one is a test.
LOL, well.. we got that one.
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
ahhh, looks like it finally showed up. Mods had to approve it i guess. #2 post above.
jon
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
Quote:
Originally Posted by
commandme
Hi,
Well, I may not be able to offer much help, but I'm about to go down the same road you are and figured i'd try.
The error looks to be position limit errors, based on the manual. Links provided if you don't have it. The pdf from leadshine doesn't work for some reason, but the other site does.
If you haven't, you may try to download the software, connect the drive to the PC via serial,(may have to make a firewire to serial cable, pinouts are provided in spec sheet, or buy a cable) and run some tests and look at what its configured for. You can also watch the following errors. At least it will give you some confirmation of whats going on.
I actually was looking at your machine when it was for sale, but already have a MD001 ready to go on the stand. Long road to CNC though. After seeing that, it made me curious about the closed loop stepper idea, so i bought one of their ES-D1008 drives to test using my own stepper/encoder. Though its not on a machine. I was high thinking about going this route, but just wasn't sure how well they would work on this machine. I PMed the original owner about it, but got no response. So, not to hijack your thread, but how do they perform other than the Z?
Also, has slowing the up/down speed had any affect?
Hope you get some better results.
jon
http://leadshineusa.com/productdetai...odel=ES-DH1208
Leadshine ES-DH1208 easy servo/closed loop stepper drive
The machine has lots of promise, but severely lacks in accuracy because of horribly loose gibs that couldn't be adjusted far enough. It's taking a LOT of work to make it remotely close to accurate. A circle milled hole of about 2.5" was as much as .020 out of round. The X gibs were so loose that with the table extended 10" in either direction, you could grab the extended end and induce as much as .040" of deflection with minimal effort from your hands.
The Z gibs were so loose that you could put a .028" feeler guage between the top 1/4 of the slide and the ways. The column was shimmed with somewhere around .050" and the head itself had at least .030 between it and the slide, but none of this was disclosed. I have had it all apart and narrowed it down to .012" shim under the column and similar under the head. Initially this stems from a crappy machine, but some TLC in the conversion process would've really made it a lot better. Now, the Z slide has .0015" clearance, and can likely be better, I just need to resolve the positioning errors first.
I have adjusted the acceleration and traverse speeds, and they sound a LOT better at 200+ IPM, but in Z that's scary - even the 120IPM is pretty damn fast.. lol. I have read mixed reviews on leadshine anything. However, I hear that Tormach uses rebranded leadshine stuff, so I am optimistic.
I had an email in to the leadshine tech guys - and they're pretty insistent on it being some sort of emi problem or possible grounding problem. So, tonight I am going to go home and pull all the wiring with ends on them and relocate as much as possible. I don't have any pictures, but I am pretty sure that the Z encoder (theone with the most problems) is sitting on or is very close to the 110V supply wires for that drive......
to be continued.
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
This thread has me on the edge of my seat.
I have the same motors and drives setting here for a project I am working on. I bought the "shielded" cables from Leadshine as well. The other day I pealed back the jacketing to see what hardware I was going to need to ground the shielding. Low and behold the cables have no shielding I could find. I called Leadshine to question them about it and the person that answered the phone did not have a clue. His final comment on the subject was that he has never seen an EMI problem with their system but that if I did have a problem after installation to email their tech department for resolution.
So, I shared this just to encourage you to double check that you actually have shielding on your cables.
Please let us know how this turns out.
Rob
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
You shimmed the Z. And the fault is happening when Z is going up. Maybe the shimming is too tight? (Too much for the driver/motor to handle).
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tinmancarving
This thread has me on the edge of my seat.
I have the same motors and drives setting here for a project I am working on. I bought the "shielded" cables from Leadshine as well. The other day I pealed back the jacketing to see what hardware I was going to need to ground the shielding. Low and behold the cables have no shielding I could find. I called Leadshine to question them about it and the person that answered the phone did not have a clue. His final comment on the subject was that he has never seen an EMI problem with their system but that if I did have a problem after installation to email their tech department for resolution.
So, I shared this just to encourage you to double check that you actually have shielding on your cables.
Please let us know how this turns out.
Rob
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks Rob!
I did some more testing, part of which was rerouting the cabling - power separated from encoders etc. No dice. I switched drives/motors where the Z used the X driver and X used the Z driver. Same faults on Z, so it's obviously related to the motor or the load. The part I don't understand is that the ER020 error, as I understand it is a "positioning error" as stated by the leadshine tech that I've been talking to via email. Personally, I don't quite understand how it can have a positioning error with an encoder - I mean, if it's 'stalling' or 'overloading', I'd think there would be a specific error for that as opposed to a positioning error.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hub
You shimmed the Z. And the fault is happening when Z is going up. Maybe the shimming is too tight? (Too much for the driver/motor to handle).
I think I hinted to that earlier - but here's some more food for thought. It worked 'ok' before I shimmed it, but still faulted periodically. The accuracy was terrible. I was looking into some solutions on how to remedy this particular problem. One, install a counterweight system. Two, Install a gas spring and Three, replace the leadshine setup with reliable steppers that are bigger. I think that the load is just borderline to being too much for the 1133oz motors, particularly in Z.
With the way the machine is wired (I didn't do it like this), the column is obstructed in the back, so there's no real room for a counterweight unless it's sticking out pretty far from the back of the machine. The gas spring is in a similar situation - The left side of the column is obstructed by the ATC and the right side has some wiring, but is doable - however, there's one more problem. The Z travel on this thing is about 19.625", so the only gas springs that are available (that I could find) are pretty expesive and high pressure. (there are some adjustable ones though).
I will likely just use a much bigger stepper and forgo the need for any kind of weighting etc. I just wanted to get away from the leadshine hybrid steppers. I think they're a bit too close to being undersized and this is a good reason to get something else.
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
Quote:
Originally Posted by
turbostang
The part I don't understand is that the ER020 error, as I understand it is a "positioning error" as stated by the leadshine tech that I've been talking to via email. Personally, I don't quite understand how it can have a positioning error with an encoder - I mean, if it's 'stalling' or 'overloading', I'd think there would be a specific error for that as opposed to a positioning error.
Here is the way I understand it. This system is suppose to operate much like a servo drive where it uses the encoder for feedback to tell the driver that the motor moved the commanded steps. Your software or controller sends pulses to the driver to tell it to move X number of steps. The driver then tries to move the motor that number of steps (depending on what the driver is set to). It uses the encoder to make sure it is moving that number of steps. If it does not, you start racking up position errors. The driver tries to make this error up, but if it does not, it hits the limit the drive is set to and you get this position error. For instance, if you send too many pulses too fast to the driver, the motor simply can't move fast enough to keep up and you hit the limit faster. Especially for steppers, as torque drops and speeds go up. Going very slow may have no problem. This is dependent on the load though. The motor may not have enough power for this.
Briefly searching, i found that high micro-stepping can reduce available torque to an extent. Motor runs smoother and quieter, but you lose torque. How many steps per revolution is your drive set to? Maybe try dropping it down to see if it improves.
Also, what is the position limit set to on the drive? Maybe try upping it to see if it takes longer to error out. Maybe once the motor gets moving, its load reduces a little.
You should really try the drive software to view the graph on how the position errors ramp up. You can command it to move from the software as well, and play with the speed and other settings. Simple software, but can be useful. The drive itself may not even be configured optimally for this task.
All in all, the motor may be undersized. Not sure how much it takes to move this Z up and down.
Makes me wonder how im going to tackle this issue when i get to it. Just got the stand painted last night. Maybe this weekend, i'll have the mill on it. Maybe.
jon
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
If I were trouble shooting it I would focus in on the encoder. I am not sure how one would test it, but you might try changing it out with the encoder from another motor. Now that I say that I am not sure they are removable. My motors are packed up in the box still so I don't have them here in front of me for reference. Maybe the Leadshine Tech can shed some light on testing it.
I am not sure from reading your last post but maybe switching the motors themselves to a different axis would isolate if it is the load or the motor.
You mentioned getting larger motors. Leadshine has some pretty strong motors listed on their page. I know you mentioned getting away from Leadshine but I thought I would offer that up.
Please keep us up to date.
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
Hi
Normally ,The ERR20 may be caused by encoder or overload . acoording to your description ,i think maybe casued by overload. you try to remove the motor from the machine ,then test it without load ,and check the drive display or not .if the alarm disappeared , i recommend you use a higher tourque motor or add a gear box .
John
[email protected]
Leadshine Technical Support
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
The first step is to take all load off motor. The ERR20 indicates the motor is not getting where requested and is either missing to many steps or required to issue too many additional pulses in an attempt to get where it was requested to go. Several things could be at play. Make sure the encoders are indeed wired correctly, those are differential signals with A, A/ , B, B/ and all four signals must be present for these encoder signal to be understood correctly.
Russ
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
Just wondering if a resolution was found?
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
I have the same problem and would love to know what the resolution was. I'm getting the Er 020 with new motors, one two completely seperate CNC machines and even after replacing the motors and not putting any load on them. What is the chance of that?
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
What have yo set the error amount to? the error means it is out of the specified range. you specify the range. If you've set it at 2 encoder counts, then it could very well jitter more than that with no load, especially if you've upped the gain a lot. Generally you want this error to be set at the max allowable error during a fast rapid move - perhaps 0.005" or so on a mill - whatever that works out in encoder counts. These motors behave fairly linearly, so when you are actually milling at "low" speed, the error tends to be very small. At 2000rpm it can thousands of counts behind.
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
Yep, it was a problem with the encoder but not what you'd think. What happened was that the 24v power supply that powers the brake inside the hybrid stepper motor, which when +24 - it releases the break, had died and was not putting out 24v. Thus, the motor would work ever so slightly until the encoder caught onto the drag from the brake and then shut down the driver - hence the error. The reason we believe it happened on both machines was because of a power line that was replaced outside the building at the time they went dead - thus the PSU's were both fried (mostly) at the same time. Really odd problem.
Re: Leadshine ES-DH1208 faults wtih ER020 frequently
I didn't think these had a brake as an option. Cant see any reference to one on their website.