What is the point of distribution of CNC tooling?
I own a small manufacturing company. We like most American companies are working to pay taxes and keep our heads above water. In the process we have to buy tools. We probably buy $130,000 worth of carbide, tool holders, live tools, etc in a year. These companies force us to get EDP numbers, descriptions etc, and type them in an e-mail, and send them off to distributors who quote the tools, and then we have to approve quotes and then we order tools. Then they come and we have to administratively pay them via check, and their reps just drop in and draw us off our work unannounced, and it's just a big huge pain in the ass. The reps don't help the customer with anything. They don't find tools for us, they don't stock inventory, they don't solve manufacturing problems.
This is 2017. We could MUCH more easily simply search an EDP, put a tool in a shopping cart, and purchase it. The distributor is just an undesirable entity in the middle, adding logistical time, adding administrative headache, and then floating discounts around a lot of the time, so one day you get a decent discount, the next day you get screwed, and EVERY day, you're paying someone in the middle to relay your EDP's to the tool company in a torturous process that SUCKS. It ends up with the customer feeling paranoid scyzophrenic, feeling alienated, being stressed most of the time and just unhappy about the whole situation.
Why do these tool companies hate their customers so much? Why do they feel like business wouldn't work if they gave us logins and discounts on their website and allowed us to order our tools there?
Re: What is the point of distribution of CNC tooling?
Next you gonna ask why we need car dealers.
Re: What is the point of distribution of CNC tooling?
LOL.....when did the KISS get lost in interpretation...........I think you should go back to the starting line and do it all over again as the present system isn't working for you.
How about creating a small splinter company...withing your company.... let them source and stock all your needs and do the holding of tools you always use?
In reality it's just a room in the corner of your workshop allocated to storing the tooling when it arrives......the inventory is controlled by a person who likes sitting on a computer all day.
Forget about all the freebies and specials, just lay the requirement on the line to any number of companies that can supply your needs and make them vie for your business.....at the best price etc........and don't have reps calling....summons them when you need them......puff puff rant rant etc.
Ian.
Re: What is the point of distribution of CNC tooling?
I call WTO, get an MSRP price on a tool. $5650. I call a sales rep, ask him if he can get me 10% off MSRP. He says, yes. I say, thanks for your cooperation. I then get a quote showing $6100MSRP and $5490 10% discounted. I call WTO again, $5650 is MSRP.
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I talked to Lyndex Nikken a few days ago, and they told me that if a tool is totally gutted they can replace it for 80% of MSRP (a nice part of their warranty/ service approach). AKA there is 20% margin at least on the product category and that's if they are selling that replacement for the core swap at full distributor price which may not be true. So what the local rep is really saying, is, "Forget that I'm inconveniencing you by the redundancy of having to order through me and that you could in a perfect world just call WTO and order this piece of garbage yourself; I also want at least $950 to make that call for you."
How does that do anything for WTO or for the customer? It's garbage. This solution they present is literally a problem. They should solve it.
And for Handlewanker above, I'm already at the computer getting all the data to deliver to the tool rep, so I'm literally already doing 100% of the work you mention would be added by me ordering direct.
On the carbide consumable side, the manufacturers are essentially taxing your consumables by forcing ordering through a false distribution network that neither supports nor stocks real product. The distributors are distributors IN NAME ONLY.
Re: What is the point of distribution of CNC tooling?
One option might be to become a distributor yourself Then you get to take the discount, if any. Might work unless they have protected territories
Re: What is the point of distribution of CNC tooling?
The firm I worked for before retirement in 2002 gave preference to a supplier who gave the best service........bum out on that deal and you don't get to supply again......sometimes you have to lay it on the line as you're the pay check at the end of each month to those suppliers.....make no error on that score......it's a buyers market.
Ian.
Re: What is the point of distribution of CNC tooling?
I called my local supplier, whos quoting department is run by the owners wife. Talked to her, asked her for a 10% discount on the WTO tool, she said they could do 4%. I thanked her for the information and ended the call. My $8000 order ended up going to the supplier with the pricing inconsistency. I had to contact WTO, get them to quote the tool to that supplier to rectify the erroneous MSRP, then they applied the 10% discount. It was a total waste of time (me calling WTO 3 times, the distributor several) and pain in the ass, perfect example of how distribution of machine tooling (other than machines) wastes manufacturing time, money, erodes efficiency and is just a monumental screw around. One click automated ordering needs to reach tooling. Standard discounts should be available to customers relative to purchasing volume.
The Rego-fix Recool units bolted into live tools with the assistance of QPM products bought through Rovi products to interface the locally purchased Recool units and the Recool units really perform nicely. Navigating the information to get to the point of understanding what SKU's were required - allowing an order to be placed was tough, but the Rego-fix corporate technical people were helpful and knowledgeable.
Re: What is the point of distribution of CNC tooling?
LOL........If I walked into my local dealership and stated that I wanted a 10% up front discount on their tooling they would show me the door.
Even if I was a high roller and bought tons from them, which is highly unlikely as they are a retailer, not a distributer, they only cater for walk off the street customers etc and with a showroom to pay for they need to have a high markup to make ends meet......a one off customer has no buying power to speak of.
As I said, my last firm had a preferred supplier listing and to get on that list you had to have credentials that were gold plated......it's a buyer's market.....you actually are the suppliers paymaster......why put up with bad service.
Ian.
Re: What is the point of distribution of CNC tooling?
Hi, the very real problem is you live in a very big country with a large population.....that means there are many suppliers and just as many customers........the suppliers are not lacking customers and you are just one more standing in line.
If you drop off the supplier's listing it doesn't make a ripple in the system they subscribe to.
When the customers band together to form a cartel.....getting into that closed shop will drive suppliers to be more efficient in their dealings.......at the moment they just don't give a damn.
I think you need to apply a feedback rating to companies that give bad service.....this will directly impact on their business eventually as the customers gravitate to those with higher feedback.......you have the power to apply the badge of trust and all it takes is someone to propose it and apply it.........a website would make a feedback listing very public.
i can say for certain that anyone buying or selling on the EBAY website with a low feedback listing is one to avoid dealing with.......once they go down on the feedback percentage listing there's no going back.
If you get the feeling that you are all alone in the World of tool supply....you probably are and do need to have a closed ranks support attitude to the suppliers......otherwise nothing will change.
Ian.
Re: What is the point of distribution of CNC tooling?
You are probably right. I'm not a snowflake, but I am from a generation that uses Amazon, Ebay, and online purchasing. I think younger people (and I don't really consider myself young) will bring that attitude to this marketplace. It is an inevitability. I feel the tax system and the regulatory environment require us to be very competitive for time and cost, and that also will push customers to faster more economical logistics. CNC is a tough industry, the stress is high and cost per minute is high. It definitely encourages speed and efficiency of action.
Re: What is the point of distribution of CNC tooling?
Hi, the production industry has always been stressful.....this is brought about by the need to be more competitive than your opponent.........many see this only as a cost factor and attempt to be the cheapest on the block......in that scenario, quality is a word they can't spell.
As I said, you should start grading the tooling suppliers and create a feedback system that can be referred to when your tooling needs are on the cards.......even a tin pot local supplier can shine if the service is a first priority.......bigger and more varied is not always a better place to deal with if you get second rate dealing.
At the same time I would avoid indulging with reps offerings on tooling that initially has a low cost factor but once you stock them gravitate to more spending......the sprat to catch the Mackerel scenario etc.
Ian..
Re: What is the point of distribution of CNC tooling?
It's a good thing kennametal have woken up to this there guys will get training on real parts
Re: What is the point of distribution of CNC tooling?
Wow, I call my tooling guy, tell him what I need, they send quote, usually with a good discount. Done.
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Re: What is the point of distribution of CNC tooling?
This is a good point. Distribution is there to "distribute". They all have multiple lines and support based on sales. The sad truth is very few are good in this industry, nor sell on price alone. Some builders of CNC steep taper tooling and live tools are making changes. What is the change? Supporting the actual person making parts. Directly. Its slow and takes time. But we have to support the machine users, at the shop level.
