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Delta VH 3600 to Centroid Acorn controller retrofit. HELP NEEDED
hey guys,
I'm helping out a friend that has a manual machine shop with this 30 years old CNC mill that sits there unused for since he has bought the shop. The reason behind it being unused is that Anilam Crusader M crt has burned and there was no way to CNC on it. He was thinking about selling it to scrap when I met him and I suggested him I can help him convert it to modern electronics and make it usable. I have IT background and worked as ATM repair tech for 7 years so I get the basic ideas. First I tried to convert signal coming from CRT with 8220 board to VGA signal, and with limited success, I've actually got the control show up on the screen for a few seconds but it was distorted and my final conclusion was that the signal that comes from the machine is below 15kHz and the 8220 can take only above frequencies. After further examining the controller electronics I've noticed boards have been reworked a few times and size of the memory is lackey for any serious job, as well as means to deliver the G code to an actual machine. After consulting him , we agreed for him to order Acorn CNC controller and if we can get the spindle to run with Acorn, then next step would be to order Clearpath Nema 34 size servos of a similar power to existing DC motors that was suggested to me by Tecnik engineer.
Now, for those of you that had done this kind or similar conversions, can you please identify from the photo attached what I'm looking at and can I reuse old power supply , relays and VFD (if there is such a thing here) for the spindle and some of the electronics? The controller is Anilam crusader M series. Any help or info is greatly appreciated
Re: Delta VH 3600 to Centroid Acorn controller retrofit. HELP NEEDED
The largest transformer most likely steps down the AC line voltage which is then changed to DC with a square wave rectifier then smoothed with the large cap. This would supply power to the servo drivers.
To get the spindle running, the easiest way would be to get a modern VFD of the proper HP rating to drive the 3-phase motor you show. The Acorn's 0-10V analog spindle output will drive the VFD/motor to the desired speed.
You might want to think about moving up to a Centroid Oak because Acorns only output step & direction signals & won't control the analog servos & drives that mill has. Acorn will work only if you change out at least the drives & encoders and most likely the servo motors as well. ($$$)
I suggest you go here: https://centroidcncforum.com/viewforum.php?f=60 and ask your questions. There are many more knowledgeable folks there than me that will most likely help you with the best solution. It's gonna be a big, expensive job but well worth it if the basic mechanical parts of the machine are in decent shape.
Good luck & post lots of pics!
Re: Delta VH 3600 to Centroid Acorn controller retrofit. HELP NEEDED
Thanks for the reply Dickeybird,
yeah as I mentioned, the motors will be upgraded to nema 34 size Clearpath servos that gonna come with integrated drivers and 2 extra power supplies, those should work flawlessly with Acorn
Re: Delta VH 3600 to Centroid Acorn controller retrofit. HELP NEEDED
Oops, I totally missed the line mentioning Clearpaths. Sounds like you're on you way!:cheers:
Re: Delta VH 3600 to Centroid Acorn controller retrofit. HELP NEEDED
Is the spindle motor really a single-voltage 550VAC motor? If so, and if you are not in a Canadian industrial site or other location that has 600VAC service, you may have trouble powering it, whether with contactors or with a VFD.
To answer one of your questions in your pictures: the original control powered the spindle motor with a "reversing starter": a pair of three-phase contactors (heavy duty relays) plus an overload device. Those are 2/3 of the black things in the bottom right corner. The additional single (non-reversing) starter (contactor and overload) is probably for a three-phase flood coolant pump.
Is there a data plate on the old control cabinet that says what the service voltage was intended to be?
Re: Delta VH 3600 to Centroid Acorn controller retrofit. HELP NEEDED
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cncsnw
Is the spindle motor really a single-voltage 550VAC motor? If so, and if you are not in a Canadian industrial site or other location that has 600VAC service, you may have trouble powering it, whether with contactors or with a VFD.
To answer one of your questions in your pictures: the original control powered the spindle motor with a "reversing starter": a pair of three-phase contactors (heavy duty relays) plus an overload device. Those are 2/3 of the black things in the bottom right corner. The additional single (non-reversing) starter (contactor and overload) is probably for a three-phase flood coolant pump.
Is there a data plate on the old control cabinet that says what the service voltage was intended to be?
Hi cncsnw,
yes it is indeed, and the machine is on Canadian industrial site that has 600V, it still works, the reason for the owner to decide to upgrade it is because the CRT was shot, but you could still jog it and all else, we couldn't start the motor only because we didn't see what we were doing.
I would have to check once again, i think there is some kind of a tag.
Ok, so say we have proper power for it, is there a way to start it with Acorn board, I would assume that it was using some kind of analog signal? What kind of modification would I have to do?
Re: Delta VH 3600 to Centroid Acorn controller retrofit. HELP NEEDED
You could continue to use the existing across-the-line starter (reversing contactor set). You would just need to run the coil power for the contactors through PLC relay outputs.
Alternately, if you wanted programmable spindle speed, you could install a suitably-rated VFD. One example would be a GS2-55P0 from Automation Direct. In that case you would control the run-forward and run-reverse signals to the VFD with PLC relay outputs, and you would also connect the 0-10V analog speed signal to the VFD to control output frequency (motor speed).
Re: Delta VH 3600 to Centroid Acorn controller retrofit. HELP NEEDED
Thanks for the info cncsnw,
since im not 100% sure what you mean, lets see ... Acorn comes with external board that contains a few relays, is that what you call PLC? Now, only concern about that , how strong the power through those Acron relays can go for the coil? 600V AC or is there some kind of the signal wiring? I would asume that if I can get the motor going, with same PLC relays I could get the flood pump started, is that correct?
Overall I realize that other brand Mills that used Anilam Crusader M have pretty much the same setup as the one I'm working on, I just can't seem to find any wiring diagrams for it, it would sure make a life hell of a lot easier
Re: Delta VH 3600 to Centroid Acorn controller retrofit. HELP NEEDED
Quote:
Now, only concern about that , how strong the power through those Acron relays can go for the coil? 600V AC or is there some kind of the signal wiring?
I am not sure where to begin.
You do not run the motor power through the little blue relays on the Acorn expansion board. You run the motor power through contactors, like those in the bottom right corner of your cabinet.
A contactor is like a big relay. When you apply power to the coil, the contactor closes and allows current to flow to the motor. The coil operating voltage is often different from the voltage that is being switched to the load (the motor). More likely than not, your contactors have coils made for 120VAC. So you would route 120VAC through the little blue relays on the Acorn expansion board, to the coils of the large contactors.
The voltage and current ratings of the little blue relays are printed on them. The maximum voltage is 250VAC. The maximum current is stated as 10A, but I would avoid getting anywhere near that. A contactor coil should draw less than 1A.
Re: Delta VH 3600 to Centroid Acorn controller retrofit. HELP NEEDED
I wish these questions and builds would be posted on the Centroid User forums: https://centroidcncforum.com/viewforum.php?f=20
Marc at CNCSNW is sharp as a tack when it comes to conversions....
I'm going to throw my .02 in.
First you have a basic knee mill.
Second, what are the specs on your Teknic Clearpath Servo motors?
Third, follow the motor wiring from the motor to the fwd/reverse contactors. In your last photo they appear to be at the bottom of the picture. Ascertain what the CONTROL/COIL voltage is of those contactors. They are interlocking, that is if one is on, the other can't energize and vice versa. An Acorn output relay may be able to control the COIL voltage of the reversing contactors.
Fourth: Find all the home limit switches, on the machine follow the wires into the cabinet and tag them AND test them with a meter set to continuity. X-, X+, Y-, Y+, Z-, Z+
Fifth: I would dump all those relays on the side of the cabinet. Ask the customer what kind of coolant he wants to use. I would NOT use Flood coolant on a mill like that. I would use Mist/MQL. Acorn's output can control a simple pneumatic solenoid.
LAST: You are monkeying around with HIGH voltage. LETHAL. Get an industrial Electrician to review and test the spindle motor contactors and spindle motor condition. You may also need a step down transformer to supply the 240V needed for the ACORN control and likely the CNCPC. Unless you are sure of yourself, get help with that one.
I would just get the spindle motor running with the FWD/REV contactors and then decide if the customer wants the expense and work of the SPECIALIZED VFD for that spindle motor....
My .02 on how I would approach the build.
Marty
Re: Delta VH 3600 to Centroid Acorn controller retrofit. HELP NEEDED
Quote:
Originally Posted by
specnaz
Hi cncsnw,
yes it is indeed, and the machine is on Canadian industrial site that has 600V, it still works, the reason for the owner to decide to upgrade it is because the CRT was shot, but you could still jog it and all else, we couldn't start the motor only because we didn't see what we were doing.
I would have to check once again, i think there is some kind of a tag.
Ok, so say we have proper power for it, is there a way to start it with Acorn board, I would assume that it was using some kind of analog signal? What kind of modification would I have to do?
Just a relay between the Acorn and the spindle contactor will turn the spindle on you may even be able to turn it on buy direct connect to the contactor coil if it is low voltage which I doubt that it is so to start the spindle you just need to activate the contactor I did not see the VFD Drive
So if you have a VFD Drive then that is even easier to connect the Acorn too, you would use 2 Relays one for FWD and one for Reverse for On / Off for speed control you use the 0-10v Acorn output to the VFD speed control Terminals
Why ClearPath they are to expensive for what you get, DMM are a far better choice
DMM | AC SERVO DRIVE | AC SERVO MOTOR | ROTARY ENCODER
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Re: Delta VH 3600 to Centroid Acorn controller retrofit. HELP NEEDED
Thank you everyone for the help, your replies have certainly helped me finish this mill up and even though It has now passed 3 years since the build, thanks to your help the machine has gone from scrap to this machine's shop main workhorse and been working flawlessly for 3 years and been taking a beating. She's a very precise mill. I ended up using Acorn board and Nema34 Clearpaths, had everything figured out and I just recently got coolant pump to run after not running for 27 years , cleanup was a mess but never the less. We never came to a point of installing VFD as the owner at the time had his budget on how much he wanted to spend but at this point we might actually install it. So far the spindle speed is controlled manually by a gear you turn by hand to desired rpm , not sure how would I disengage that. Currently the relay on Acorn controls contractor that fires the motor up
