4 Attachment(s)
5x10 Chinese Router with Issues
Hi,
I purchased this machine last year, used. Was sold under the WWW.INTELICAM.CA name and believe it is the machine spoken of in this thread (https://www.cnczone.com/forums/compl...-software.html) from THE SIGN SHOP. So I knew the machine had issues but I have another chinese machine from CanCam cnc 4x4 and have had good luck with it. Bought this machine to take some of the larger sheets I process mostly hdpe and a foam product.
So upon getting it back to my shop the getting it operating, the water cooled spindle was internally rusted and not passing water, so I replaced it with a Fan Cooled 2.2kw like my other cnc has. The sbr25 linear rails had visible damage on the y axis, so I replaced those along with the bearings.
I am getting what seems to be deflection while cutting the hdpe, but wondering if anything in the machine construction that by being upgraded would give the best potential at reducing the deflection. Most of the deflection or issues seems to be in the y axis (long axis).
The machine has a steel base construction with supported linear rails on the x and y axis while round rails on the z axis. All axis are driven by single ballscrew per axis. The gantry sides are constructed of 1.25" solid aluminum and the crossbeam seems to be 5/8" x 7" aluminum plate.
While I understand this isn't as beefy of machine has some, it seems that the speeds that i am having issues are much lower than i believe they should be.
My main thoughts are a few possible upgrades that would possibly help.
- Upgrading to linear rails to fight rotational forces
- Switching the y axis to dual driven rack and pinion, to help reduce racking possibilities
Also if anyone knows of another brand that sold this cnc, with this construction, i could do further research on something maybe a bit more popular.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Re: 5x10 Chinese Router with Issues
Have you check Z axis. It could flex forward-back more than left-right and it might look as it has Y axis deflection.
I would set micrometer against cutter and push spindle by hand to see how much play in each axis
4 Attachment(s)
Re: 5x10 Chinese Router with Issues
Re: 5x10 Chinese Router with Issues
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vlod
Have you check Z axis. It could flex forward-back more than left-right and it might look as it has Y axis deflection.
I would set micrometer against cutter and push spindle by hand to see how much play in each axis
With the micrometer on the table and the spindle all the way down, i am getting between 80-120 thousandths of play in the y axis direction and 20-40 thousandths in x axis. I have believed that a possible issue is a rotational force of flexing in the z axis. Also to be noted with the micrometer mounted on the table could the entire gantry could be pushing along its axis possibly due to the ballscrew torquing has it is a 10' axis?
Re: 5x10 Chinese Router with Issues
I would lower gantry as much as possible as long as you cutting only sheets of plastic and spread Y bearing blocks apart more ( you would lose some table space)
That’s a lot of leverage on the bearings blocks that spaced so close. Are there two blocks on each side? It’s hard to see.
Re: 5x10 Chinese Router with Issues
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vlod
I would lower gantry as much as possible as long as you cutting only sheets of plastic and spread Y bearing blocks apart more ( you would lose some table space)
That’s a lot of leverage on the bearings blocks that spaced so close. Are there two blocks on each side? It’s hard to see.
I understand the thought behind lowering the gantry, I believe there was such a tall gantry because of the ATC spindle. Currently the mounted spindle is not atc, but it will be replaced with another ATC spindle. There are 2 bearings per side. I do agree that lowering will help my situation rather extremely. I think there is much more play between the z and x axis connection. I do think i could add a third bearing on each side to extend the footprint on the y axis.
Also to me it seems my other cnc with linear rails have much less tolerance on the bearings vs this type of linear motion. Do you think changing to a linear rails over the supported round rails would other much better tolerances aswell?
Re: 5x10 Chinese Router with Issues
Hi,
round rails, even supported round rails are not up to what you want. You could spend a lot of time and money while making only small gains......is that the the best use of your resources?.
Buy a more rigid machine, sell this one.
Craig
Re: 5x10 Chinese Router with Issues
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joeavaerage
Hi,
round rails, even supported round rails are not up to what you want. You could spend a lot of time and money while making only small gains......is that the the best use of your resources?.
Buy a more rigid machine, sell this one.
Craig
While I understand that may seem simple enough, value still matters. I need to be able to process 54" wide sheets which puts me in the 5x10 machine size. That size of cnc would be in the starting range of 40,000 for the lower end of the scale. Before buying a new machine I will scrap the entire gantry and rebuild with linear rails and heavier construction if need be for far less money.
Re: 5x10 Chinese Router with Issues
Hi,
Quote:
I will scrap the entire gantry and rebuild with linear rails and heavier construction if need be for far less money.
The question I asked is "Is this the best use of your resources?"
Craig
Re: 5x10 Chinese Router with Issues
I think you need to go all round the machine to identify the source of the flexing as it may have it's origins in a place that you might not suspect.To my eyes,the spindle mounting bracket is less than ideal as it is a long way from the tool tip and doesn't support the extremities of the spindle.I can't see an easy way to locate a dial gauge in the area so that you could investigate but you will really need to look for play in several areas.
I think some of the problem may have it's roots in the considerable height of the gantry as it will magnify what may be a tiny amount of play in the rail system.Similarly,the height doesn't help with the amount that the gantry uprights can flex and we can't see shat kind of bracing they have-if any.A dial gauge on a box to investigate play at the height of the gantry beam would be revealing.
A replacement set of supported rails for the Z axis would be a simple fix,but still less ideal than high grade rails,even the best rails in the world will show some play with the Z axis extended so far..I think the whole machine illustrates very well what happens when somebody imagines that a huge amount of Z axis travel is a great idea,but doesn't consider the implications.
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Re: 5x10 Chinese Router with Issues
Quote:
Originally Posted by
routalot
I think you need to go all round the machine to identify the source of the flexing as it may have it's origins in a place that you might not suspect.To my eyes,the spindle mounting bracket is less than ideal as it is a long way from the tool tip and doesn't support the extremities of the spindle.I can't see an easy way to locate a dial gauge in the area so that you could investigate but you will really need to look for play in several areas.
I think some of the problem may have it's roots in the considerable height of the gantry as it will magnify what may be a tiny amount of play in the rail system.Similarly,the height doesn't help with the amount that the gantry uprights can flex and we can't see shat kind of bracing they have-if any.A dial gauge on a box to investigate play at the height of the gantry beam would be revealing.
A replacement set of supported rails for the Z axis would be a simple fix,but still less ideal than high grade rails,even the best rails in the world will show some play with the Z axis extended so far..I think the whole machine illustrates very well what happens when somebody imagines that a huge amount of Z axis travel is a great idea,but doesn't consider the implications.
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I completely agree. In the coming days, i'm hoping to try to use multiple dial gauges in multiple locations to find what the tolerances are on the different aspects of the machine, find the largest inconsistency and perhaps find the most practical way to remedy. I will definitely be lowering the gantry height, but i have to check to dimensions on what the ATC spindle will allow and be able to function.
