Rapidly losing interest.

I am rapidly losing interest in this whole CNC thing.

I have a machine and struggle to make a buck out of it.
The work I do get is the trublesom stuff to cut like 20mm black plastic that either melts to the bit if too fast, or doesnt cut fast enough for the feed rate.
Laminated aluminium on mdf, constantly pulls off the board during cutting.
And crappy amounts of other work.

I hate the noise, the dust is crap, and nothing turns out like I really want it to.

I ring around and nearly every person says they get thier stuff cut by laser.
I would need a hefty laser to cut the stuff they want cut. Not the 1000 dollar jobbies.

Basically I think I am burning out of this and will have to find a job collecting money in a car park ticket booth. It would pay better.

Any one want to buy a fat arsed machine? Cuts 3.5m x 1.5m

Gee I am feeling depressed now, maybe 2morrow I might feel different and some guys rings me up and gives me a five year contract cutting 6 mm ply in the one shape.

Sorry for sharing my depression. (My folks alway told me to share my things :) )

All business owners experience bad times.... Just remember that the bad times will end.. Its all a matter of if your still around when they do...

Murphy

Benny, there's many days i feel just like you do now. To be self employed is NOT a walk in the park.....
There have been times that i thought "this is it" and then someone walks through the doors with very nice interesting work that's good money.....

Hang in there!!!!
Things will change for the better!!!

Benny, you remember that thread not long back where a guy in the states (I think?) was in the doldrums over his business? He had good experience, good machines, but wasn't making a go of it for various reasons. One of the replies was that instead of being at the whim of his customers (in his case machine shop facilities and in your case contract router work) he should develop his own product no matter what that may be. I totally agree. I didn't cut it as a subcontractor for router work in Oz but I did start producing a product that no one else had at the time and I made a killing out of it in a short amount of time. One thing you have going for you in Australia is the cheap labour cost compared to say Europe and USA. If you can hang in there doing what you do now BUT devote more time to looking/thinking I'm sure you'll come up with something. I have a mate in north Queensland for example who produces refurbishment kits for the interiors of medium sized commercial aircraft and he sends his kits all over the world. I also knew a guy in Brisbane that produces landing gear for model aircraft and he also sends his stuff all over the world. Another who produces acrylic fish tanks on pallet for sending live fish (full size fish for eating) to Japan. These units have controlled aeration and temperature of the water and controlled pressure so that the fish arrive in perfect condition. If you're not going to become a professional cnc builder or repair technician, you need to see your cnc stuff as nothing more than a tool to aid in the production of the product which is where you'll make the real money. It can also be a hobby BUT keep it in perspective. In my opinion the most lucrative market is the international market as the Oz market..... well.....if you're going to make something for the Oz market you need to develop a product which if it's a succes, you can run hard with for the year and a half until everyone else copies it and cuts the guts out of the price (I know full well how the Oz market works!). Good luck and hope this helps.
Skippy

Hi Benny

I think skippy's right you need to find a niche market.

Heres a webpage that may help with routing plastic
http://www.plasticrouting.com/Van.asp


Paul
Crowded House - Don't Dream It's Over.mp3

I must say I scorn those who try to seek attention for them selves. In reading back it really does look that is what I have done.

Today I cut out 42 cat shapes for this golf course that wants to scare the ducks away from thier ponds. The sheet was 20mm thick with high poly prop content. The plastic stuck to the tip and stuffed up the edges of the cut. I dont know what to say to my client. He supplied the material and it is expensive stuff. Do I say here you are, sorry i stuffed up your material? or here you are dont worry about the bill? or here you are I will reimburse you for the material, and dont worry about the bill.

Any of those options renders me as having wasted time and losing money.
If I had heaps of jobs on it wouldnt hurt so much, but I dont, so the cost is even greater to me.

Sorry for starting this post, i was just feeling a bit depressed this after noon.

I am seriously thinking to either give up, or look at been the first to make a home made water jet cutter on this forum.

EDIT: Yes I agree with you guys about making my own products. I have for some time been designing and making a retro arcade gaming cabinet to sell. The other day I had finished it. I was so proud, it looked fantastic. I was wheeling it on a trolly from under the house with pride in my heart and imagining how my wife and kids would say what a fantastic job I had done.
While wheeling it, it came lose and tumbled down the hill. Yep it is a right off.
That took me 4 weeks to build.( Took longer coz it was the proto type)
At the moment I even feel hesitant to start all over again with it.

I say that you use your machine to make the Ynneb boomerang and sell it on ebay.

(grins)

Naw seriously, I agree whole heartedly that the ideal way to make money would be in creating your own product to sell. Whether it's a monogrammed bird mansion or a super duper boomerang.

I think of stuff all the time that I'd like to make. It's taken me about 3 years to get to the point where I am now. Should be getting the workshop in the next 4-6 weeks, then I have to figure out a way to avoid planting rose bushes for the wifey when I'm not at work or school.

I have a few ideas that we can kick around via PM if your interested. I don't know how viable they are, but maybe something to wrap your brain around.

As for your cats, I don't know the demensions, or the level of error. I'd guess it would be plausible to shave the edges again? Might be a pain in the butt setup though.

I'm still a Jr. Newbie, so I haven't experienced all the problems with materials and setups yet.

...just a word of encouragement..
I'm mainly a deck builder, and have had to tear out a complete deck installation for whatever reason.....either I did something drastically wrong or it was too close to the water, or the community member down the road said" Why can't I do that too-you will have to take it out".
The point in is... I was ready to throw in the towel and get out of the mess.
Just take it from where you are, chaulk it up for experience, analyze what happened and go from there.
As to the materials...can you re-run and clean up ?

Bloy

Benny,
Perhaps you are anxious over nothing, take the worst one to him and show him the unexpected problem, and see how he responds, my guess is he will not be particularly disappointed in something that is just going to be stuck in the ground.

I am assuming they still look like cats.

PS
Don't call him over this, go to him personally if at all possible.

Benny, how fast are you cutting the stuff(rpm and feed per minute(second?) and what kind of depth are you taking on the passes?

If your chattering at the depth your taking so your cutting slower, I woudl take half the pass and run at least 100ipm through plastic with a router(assuming 10k or higher rpm)
I just cut some delrin the other day at 50ipm on my machine, I could have probably cranked that up even from there. Its all about getting the proper chip load.

Jon

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Originally Posted by Ken_Shea

I am assuming they still look like cats.

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I'm sorry, but that made me laugh. :cheers:

Benny,
I've found when working with plastic that even if the edges are rough and have chips welded to them - it can be fixed. A scraper will take off the welded chips, and some 600grit-1000grit sandpaper will make the edges look perfect again. If the edges are actually chipped, I have had luck doing a rounded-edge with sandpaper, and it still looks fine. Flame polish at your own peril...

Seriously, don't give up. I felt the same way after the ArtCNC contest. I really, really, wanted (needed) to win. There were a lot of entries from people with only one post, and I am trying to build my machine on a shoe-string budget while also trying to save up $10,000 for a downpayment on our first house (oh, and did we find a beauty!). So, I understand the wanting to just throw in the towel on something that looks like a toy/hobby to others - but I refuse to. I have so many ideas stuck in my head...I need this machine to get them out. :cheers:

Benny,

About the plastic edges. I used to watch the model shop machinest on my first job out of college work with cutting plastic on a mill. The end edges of the plastic did not look clear and clean. He took a torch and quickly passed the hot fire over and over the edge of the plastic. It took away all scratches and make a clear clean looking edge on the plastic.

Try this with a propane torch on a scrap piece of the plastic. Move fast so you don't burn it. You just want to lightly melt the edge surface.

As for cutting the aluminum covered laminate. Use a down sprial bit next time.

Benny,

Remember who's kid you are! :) I have had very similar circumstances...........
for the past three years. I unashamedly say that I am a Christian and that my business was started because of a very specific answer to a very specific prayer. Now, if I truly believe that, I cannot give up.

My father, whom I loved when he was alive and still love today, was an entrepreneur that, with all my heart I believe, gave up too soon. He made and sold the very first potato chips ever sold in Pike County Arkansas! I don't know about in Australia but here in the states it is a multi billion per year business. That could just have easily been a cnc machine business in Australia!

One note to let you know that others are experiencing the same thing. I may well have to go take a job to make it through this dry spell, but I will not shut my business down. You are one of the most talented people I have had the pleasure of meeting (net wise). Here's an idea for you. Go and get just a couple of boards of some figured wood that is native to Australia. Make a program for wooden ladles, spatulas, etc. Find a market for them. How about high grade wooden jewelry boxes, and not the square box kind either, get creative.

Javadog, what kind of stuff do you need for your machine?

Mike

Hi,

You should take a good look at the signage industry, with a large router like that you should find plenty of work, intresting work. You can offer to rout a wide range of materials, acrylic, plywood dibond, foamex...etc.

Most small sign makers wont have routers but will want cut out acrylic letters, shaped plywood/plastic sign blanks, dibond sign trays with cut outs for illuminated sign....in fact the posibilities go on and on. They will even supply you with the relevent cad files, so it doesnt mater if your not artistic.

There is also a good profit to be made, the materals are easy to cut and the tolerences are not that tight.

Stick with it,
Simon

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Originally Posted by turmite

Javadog, what kind of stuff do you need for your machine?

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Last "big" things are Servos and Drivers (Looking at Geckos). I managed to get some great deals on rails/slides and ballscrews. My thread is here, if you're interested.

I'm going to start basic with the software (ArtSoft), and work my way up to OneCNC-XR down the road when I can afford it.

Fozzy: Do you think there will be any market for my machine in signs? My cutting area is going to be around 22in x 22in...so, not too big.

Sure Javadog, thats how i make my living :D

With a machine of that size you will be best of going for the engraving market, brass plaques, mimics, control panels, badges etc....although cut out acrylic letters is still possible, you just cant do too many at once :)

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Originally Posted by ynneb

I have a machine and struggle to make a buck out of it.
The work I do get is the trublesom stuff to cut like 20mm black plastic that either melts to the bit if too fast, or doesnt cut fast enough for the feed rate.
Laminated aluminium on mdf, constantly pulls off the board during cutting.
And crappy amounts of other work.

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Well experience hurts when aquiring it, but look ahead! In some years it feels nice to be able to tell your customer you can do the nearly impossible. Of course that experience will allow you to chage a price you can live from.

Cutting Alu on MDF I would suggest you cut the aluminum first with a bit that has no twist, or a reversed twist at correct dimension. Then cut the MDF 0.5mm or so outside (too big). Finish off again with correct dimension thus not really touching the aluminum. More passes, yes, so the price will have to reflect that.

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I hate the noise, the dust is crap, and nothing turns out like I really want it to.

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Welcome to the club. Sometimes work is a pain. But do you really mean nothing turns out like you want tò? Think again!

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Basically I think I am burning out of this and will have to find a job collecting money in a car park ticket booth. It would pay better.

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And in 5 years you can say you are really good at shuffling coins! I would have a really hard time getting any job satisfaction from that.

I also sweared a couple of weeks ago that I would install a 5mm steel plate on the wall of my office to bang my head against as whichever problem I chased down in a control system always seemed to scare up a new one. Just like squeezing out bulges from wallpaper: they just pop up again another place. But it did go out the door in time, and working as it should. Then the satisfaction of my customer makes me think "what problems?".

When I feel really stuck up against the wall I will have a talk with myself before the day is over. And I force myself to point out the progress made that day. I't a very rare occation if I cannot come up with more than one, they just tend to get drowned in the problems.

Do as advised: take the cats to your customer. Tell him about the problems, ask him to consider if they will not fulfill their purpose. Trim the edges if you feel they just look too terrible. But remember: a real cat is somewhat furry.

Personally I think it's good to vent.....but I would have done it during the 1st cat cutout.....anyway when you encountered the problem at first...you should seek expert advice from books or a forum like this.

What's kinda funny is that my girlfriend vents just like that....anything that happens and she is sure that the rest of the day will be screwed up.....when I screw up....I think about it.....learn from it and move on...hopefully much wiser....guess you could say I'm an optomist.

If CNC was easy, everyone would be doing it. My suggestion would be try to find some customers in a marketplace that doesn't know/care about CNC. Maybe the computer case modification market? Custom fan guards? CNC'd heat sinks? Don't be afraid to pursure customers, the worse that can happen is a customer say no. Of course, I have no idea what I'm saying...