according to the plans all gaskets are .01 thick teflon except for the head gaskets being .02 teflon
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according to the plans all gaskets are .01 thick teflon except for the head gaskets being .02 teflon
That stuff is very expensive, it's a good thing it is a very small engine. If/when needed I'll likely use regular gasket material except for heads.
actually its pretty cheap I just bought the material for mine a couple days ago. 12" wide .01 thick is only 7.39 a foot. from Mcmaster Carr
It's cheap because it's thin and only a small amount is required.
thats the beauty of it.
Look Craig, were not paying you the big bucks to play on the internet, get busy on that engine or we may have to let you go :D
LOL I was fired from the last job I had right after Christmas. I was there 6 weeks. the plant manager said we just weren't compatible. I didn't disagree with him. I was hired on to do quoting etc because I had lots of experience and I was going to get their shop centered on the new shop software they were looking to implement. they quickly discovered I was not a yes sir no sir boy and would not bow down and be the sheep every one else was. I have always spoken my opinion on whatever it was. regardless of whether they wanted to hear it or not. the guys in the shop felt he let me go because he was intimidated by me because I had more experience than he did. I was always questioning why they did a past job a certain way and told them how they could have done it faster and with fewer operations. I didn't lose any sleep over it by any means. I only took the job because of the benefits. the 40 mile drive was really sucky too. so I didn't feel I was really out anything. I just went back to doing the at home thing full time again. after that experience I came to realize I don't think I can be an "employee" ever again. SO Ken, if you REALLY want to fire me. you wouldn't be the first.
I showed this to my boss and he wants to know what the price tag is on one of these motors? Thanks
oh my I would hate to guess. the hours it takes to build one of these is extremely high.
now this is strange... the plant manager that let me go from the last place I worked just called me asking if I could take on some more work he had. he has had me do work for him since he let me go but its been a few months since I have heard from him last. just thought I would share that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_Shea
I make all my gaskets with .010 thick teflon sheet with the exception of the head gaskets where I use .020 or .030 depending on certian factors. Compression ratio being the biggest one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavmike
Craig has been at this for a little over 20 days and isn't finished yet. If you assume an average of 4 hours spent on this engine per day, at a shop rate of $100 per hour, that adds up to $8,000 so far...
Think of this as an expensive prototype, rather than representative of streamlined production cost.
I understand completely what your saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by dynosor
Gary Conley sells production 1/4 scale engines. They are cheaper than $8,000 but not much.
http://www.conleyprecision.com/
It appears he makes use of lots of castings, nothing wrong with that of course just that it would save a lot of time. The first several prototypes are where the big learning curve is, once fixtures, tool paths, methods are all made and optimized one could likely make decent if not good money if they would sell for $8k
That Stinger 609 is a beautiful creation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehuckss396
Compare that to good quality RC multi-cylinder model engines:
Boxer 4: $1649.99
TowerHobbies.com | 36410 O.S. FF-320 Pegasus 4-Cylinder Ringed 4-Stroke
7-Cylinder Radial: $3499.99
TowerHobbies.com | 37010 O.S. FR7-420 Sirius7 7-Cylinder Engine
Inline 4: 2299.99
TowerHobbies.com | 36310 O.S. IL-300 Inline Ringed 4-Cylinder 4-Stroke
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynosor
I think Conley gets about $6700 a copy. If OS made an engine of compareable size and parts count, they would be in the same ball park.
$6700 is a bargain, and yet you could probably get a full-size production V8 for that...Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehuckss396
LOL my shop rate is only 60/hr and it would still be extremely expensive.
well of course making a single one would be very costly, but if you had a cnc mill/lathe, and were setup to make just THAT engine one could do it for much much much less. Lean manufacturing at its finest. :P
Cant wait to see it run in its glory!! :)
even if you had a CNC lathe and mill. which I do have both. you still would have loads of time in them. not just in the actual machining time but the setup time. I have had setups on this engine that took longer than running the parts the setup was for. you would need multiple machines dedicated to certain operations. or a tooling plate on the bed of the mill and a fixture for every part as well as enough tool holders to hold every tool so you weren't touching off tools every time you changed a setup.
making these engines in mass quantity would be a costly venture no matter which way you approached it. you would have to sell a lot of them to ever break even let alone make a profit. unless you sub contract work out to china. which is easily done. then you could make money at it. the down side, once it hits the market the chinese will copy it and flood the market with clones if not exact duplicates and kill your "corner" on the market and drive your sales down through competition. trust me on this one I know from first hand experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cforcht
I which case the quality would be so poor that the product would die a slow death and you would both be out of bidness.
Just a mini update. The throttle lever is done and installed. I used a RC linkage kit for the ball and socket. Now the exhaust pipes are of the highest priority.
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/x.../DSCN2063s.jpg
Steve I would really like to agree with you about the quality. lord knows we ship too much of our business over there as it is. and have lost even more to their lower wages. But I have seen some of their work and they are capable of equally impressive quality. just like in the states, it depends on where you go and pays to shop around.
I have started on the sparkplug boot project. I am going to attempt to make a mold of some sort and cast rubber into the mold. I haven't decided weather to cast the boots onto the wires or make a boot to slip on the wire. I like the thought of reuseable boots but assembly would be alot easier with the wires molded in.
I have never done anything like this, Never seen anybody do it, or have any idea of how to go about it. Other than that it should be easy!
Here are a few pix of the master. From these the mold should be able to be made. I am not sure if I'm going to gate it side to side or front to back so I have not done anything with that yet.
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/x.../DSCN2071s.jpg
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/x.../DSCN2076s.jpg
are you going to cast plaster around the core? or something else?
I have to wait until Wednesday (metal club meeting) to talk to Ron. He knows a guy who sells all the stuff to do this kind of work. He tells me that the mold can be silicon rubber and you can cast rubber into the mold if you coat it with the correct release agent. Will know more then.Quote:
Originally Posted by cforcht
Micro Mark sells this stuff FYI. Hope this is of value, and I must commend you on this outstanding project.:o
Search Results - Micro-Mark
http://www.micromark.com/Casting-and...-Supplies.html
Robert
Steve,
I was looking at the rings. you say to heat to 500 then coat with non scaling compound. could you wrap it in stainless foil to keep the scale off? thats another way to do it. also. I lack a heat treat oven. do you have some home brew method of heating it to 1100 degrees? and do you split the rings before or after heat treating?
I presume rings are split before heat treating as the heat treatment is used to first relax and then "set" the rings in their springy "open" state.
Good info here: http://www.modelenginenews.org/techniques/piston_rings.html & http://www.modelenginenews.org/feeney/pg8.html
Heating rings inside stainless foil is one way to limit scale.
Now, who has an appropiate oven...
ahh but the heat treating before cutting will stress relieve the ring so when you cut it. the rings doesnt spring in or out. thus maintaining its machined shape after its split. we call it "killing" the part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cforcht
Sounds like one could heat treat before and after, both for good reasons: Surely, heating after splitting is required to give the ring its tension so that it meets the cylinder wall with a little enthusiasm?
hmmm. just might be some trial and error to find the "sweet" spot. personally I think you make the rings couple thou over your bore size. heat treat. then split the ring. I feel it will give the desired effect.
The rings are split before heat treating. They are split and installed onto the fixture. The fixture holds the gap open but it holds the ring the correct way so that when the ring is compressed it will go back to being round and fit the bore. Then they are heated to stress relieve the ring. After heating, the rings are removed from the fixture and the gap is wide open. They will now need to be compressed to fit back into the bore.Quote:
Originally Posted by cforcht
Yes you could use stainless foil.
No I don't have a home brew method, I have an oven.
Yes you split them first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cforcht
Please dont do this!
after reviewing the plans last night I figured that you make them to size both id and od then split them. then run them through the heat treat process on the fixture. Dyno sent me a link to an article on making rings. after reading that I understood your methodology on making the rings.
This is the fixture. The rings being split are installed on the fixture. The dowel pin puts pressure on the ring holding the gap open but also pushing down the center of the ring.
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/x.../DSCN1423s.jpg
The loaded rings (26 or so). I dont have a pic of the dowel but it holds the rings open .094 for a 5/8 ring.
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/x.../DSCN1431s.jpg
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/x.../DSCN1447s.jpg
Did you know if you lower the profile of the valve covers (theres plenty of room under them) it more or less resembles a Big Block :D
yeah but the tall valve covers look better than the short stock ones that came on big blocks. or in my opinion anyway. If you're going for the big block look its going to take more effort than merely changing the valve cover height. the exhaust port arrangement and width of the heads is where the big block is readily distinguishable from the small block.
the big block had what is called splayed valves. which is harder to create than the small block style where they are all straight. when I get done with this not so little demon v8 as Steve calls it. maybe I will start working on a big block version in my spare time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rnieball
My big block chevy covers looked just like these. I had the tall covers to clear the taller hardware on the Dart heads.