Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
Find your manual and look up the code that is displayed. If you have to spin it to start you might have a missing phase connection either in the motor or drive wiring to the motor.
https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/bl...vfd-to-a-motor
https://www.motioncontroltips.com/tr...-power-checks/
Never depend on checking from a VFD output to ground as it needs to be phase to phase check.
Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DemBones
I have a spindle that has been working until today. The spindle will start when I hit the spindle control in Mach3 and then (not immediately) shut down. I get an HoC code on the front of the VFD. I removed the wire connection to the top of the spindle and ran the spindle with Mach3 again. I can get it up to 400 and back down without any code. I assume this means that my spindle is bad but why would it startup in the first place.
Can anyone tell me if the spindle is truly bad and if I need to replace or is it something else?
I tried everything to post the video but I was unable. So here is a link to the video
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_V9...ew?usp=sharing
What VFD Drive do you have model number and brand name
This can be many different problems as the spindle did not reach max speed, increase the ramp up to speed time Parameter
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Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
No, I don't have to spin it to start, that was to just show it spins freely.
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Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DemBones
it is a "Best" VFD
Ok check P038 and see what you have this may be set to low
P038=
Because you have been running for some time first check the spindle with a meter
From the spindle plug
Pin 1 to Pin 2=
Pin 2 to Pin 3=
Pin 3 to Pin 1=
Pin 4 to spindle Body ( this is Ground )
And all Pins to the Spindle Body
Then check the Cable from the VFD Drive to the Spindle, and inside the plug connections
Why do you have to check this, this Fault indicates that there could be a short in your wiring or your Spindle
Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
Who made up the cable from the VFD output to the spindle and plug? Very possible you have a loose or broken connection. Or the wires inside the cable end plug are shorted or open.
Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
The company made the cable. I have asked the company for a manual and the parameters for the VFD but they have not responded. I'm not sure how to work the VFD but did put in P038 and pushed the button and it shows a 6.0. Would that be a correct number? I will check for a short between the wires today and post the results.
Thanks for the help and direction
Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
I just checked the wires on the spindle side and the plug side and there were no shorts. The ground pin was shorted to the case on the spindle side but that was it.
Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DemBones
The company made the cable. I have asked the company for a manual and the parameters for the VFD but they have not responded. I'm not sure how to work the VFD but did put in P038 and pushed the button and it shows a 6.0. Would that be a correct number? I will check for a short between the wires today and post the results.
Thanks for the help and direction
Yes that number would be Ok
Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DemBones
I just checked the wires on the spindle side and the plug side and there were no shorts. The ground pin was shorted to the case on the spindle side but that was it.
What where the continuity reading between the Pins as I posted at the Spindle only
Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
between all of the pins read 0.8 ohms and nothing or open between the ground pin and others.
Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DemBones
between all of the pins read 0.8 ohms and nothing or open between the ground pin and others.
That is lower than normal, normal is 1.3 to 1.9, there have been some that low and the spindle did run ok
Did they use a 4 wire shielded cable from the VFD Drive to the Spindle
Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
They are only using the3 wires. However, I do believe it is a shielded casing but they are not utilizing it.
Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DemBones
They are only using the3 wires. However, I do believe it is a shielded casing but they are not utilizing it.
Do they have a Ground wire going to the VFD Drive with the input power, post some close up photos of how they have wired your machine
So the Spindle had no correct Grounding which it has to have, I would say that the VFD is damaged, the spindle may have some problems as well, remove your spindle and take it to a motor repair shop and have them test the windings, they won't be able to run it unless they have a 400Hz VFD Drive and is set up to run your spindle at 400Hz
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Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
I did purchase another spindle but want to make sure everything is OK before install.
Here is a video of the VFD reacting to Mach3 controls. I am able to run it all the way up to 400Hz or 24000 rpm without the spindle attached.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zk...u7iQ3SN1VtIKha
The pictures are also attached of the wiring. The wiring at the spindle is red, yellow, and blue but red, white and black at the VFD. I had to extend the wires so I soldered the red to red, white to white, and blue to black. I also shrink wrapped the wires individually and then taped the wires together.
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Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DemBones
I did purchase another spindle but want to make sure everything is OK before install.
Here is a video of the VFD reacting to Mach3 controls. I am able to run it all the way up to 400Hz or 24000 rpm without the spindle attached.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zk...u7iQ3SN1VtIKha
The pictures are also attached of the wiring. The wiring at the spindle is red, yellow, and blue but red, white and black at the VFD. I had to extend the wires so I soldered the red to red, white to white, and blue to black. I also shrink wrapped the wires individually and then taped the wires together.
Check with your meter the Pin readings on your new spindle, to see how it compares to your old spindle, do not run the new spindle without the correct cable and Grounds installed
So it does not appear to have a Ground on the VFD Drive as well, all of the wiring has to be checked for Ground wires, at the point of where the power enters the machine there will be a Ground connection from this point Ground wires need to be run to the VFD Drive and any thing else in cabinet that needs a Ground wire connected Items like drives, power supplies Etc
Look for the sign for a Ground point or the letters ( PE )
Then you need a new cable from the VFD Drive to the Spindle which should be 4 wire shielded the shields terminated at both ends this is a cable that is Ideal for this install
Check that the Spindle Pin 4 is Grounded in the Spindle with your meter, if not this has to be connected
CF6-15-04 you can get this from IGUS
Snip from your VFD manual
Post more photos of the incoming Power and what else is in your cabinet
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Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
I just got some time to take some pictures.
There was not any type of grounding for the power so I placed the ground on the bottom left of the metal holding plate. See in the picture. But, It looks as if there is nothing grounded. I saw the PE in the VFD has nothing to it as well as the Mach3 controller's PE has nothing to it.
Sorry when I posted the pictures they uploaded upside down and sideways.
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Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DemBones
I just got some time to take some pictures.
There was not any type of grounding for the power so I placed the ground on the bottom left of the metal holding plate. See in the picture. But, It looks as if there is nothing grounded. I saw the PE in the VFD has nothing to it as well as the Mach3 controller's PE has nothing to it.
Sorry when I posted the pictures they uploaded upside down and sideways.
Don't add a Ground to the Controller, unless you have all the spec's for it, and I can see if it is required
So you added the that Ground wire ???
Is that from the incoming Power supply Ground ???
The Ground wire you added, looks a little on the light side, it needs to be the same or larger than the input Power supply wires which are most likely around 10 Gauge
If you added this Ground, then you have setup a Star Point Ground , which is a start in the right direction, the drives and Power supplies all will have a PE Ground on them they all need a Ground wire to that same incoming Ground Point you made, you can mount a Bus on the plate and bring all your Grounds to that one point
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Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
Yes, I wired the unit and the ground wire is from the incoming house ground. It is 10 gauge to the unit but 12 gauge to the ground. I will change to 10 gauge. I don't see where the ground would go to on the drives. There is nothing noted on the cases. Does the ground of the spindle in the VFD and the ground to the case both go to the same PE terminal in the VFD? It looks like I can ground the transformer down on the corner. (see picture)
As far as the spindle wire goes, what size wire should be used? On the website, even the 16 gauge states that it is good for 1000V.
https://www.igus.com/product/1088
Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DemBones
Yes, I wired the unit and the ground wire is from the incoming house ground. It is 10 gauge to the unit but 12 gauge to the ground. I will change to 10 gauge. I don't see where the ground would go to on the drives. There is nothing noted on the cases. Does the ground of the spindle in the VFD and the ground to the case both go to the same PE terminal in the VFD? It looks like I can ground the transformer down on the corner. (see picture)
As far as the spindle wire goes, what size wire should be used? On the website, even the 16 gauge states that it is good for 1000V.
https://www.igus.com/product/1088
For Grounding the Drives normally there is 2 screws for Grounding on the Heat sink of the drive
Yes the spindle Ground normally goes to the VFD Drive so you have U V W and Ground all connected at the VFD Drive and Spindle
The part number I posted is the cable you should be using CF6-15-04 It's not the Voltage that is normally a problem with cable the Amperage, Shield and flex rating is more important and the outside diameter , that will fit in your spindle plug
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Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
I just received my wire today so I thought I would post some pictures. When I called Igus and told them what I was looking for and gave them the part number I was supplied by mactec54, they suggested a CF140-15-04 instead. It was less expensive so I went with his recommendation. I didn't ground the Mach3 board because mactec54 was going to check on if it was needed. So I am waiting for his reply to go forward with that ground. I also didn't see where to ground the stepper drivers so those where not grounded as well but the transformer and the VFD were and I upgraded the ground to a 10 gauge from the house.
I also received my new spindle and made a quick movie of the unpacking and putting the meter to it.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Zs...lFbUCLeKKmh-vd This is of the old drive
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Jd...ZC-9AT0mTOVqNv This is of the new drive
Not sure what I am looking for because if I have the sound on to show continuity then every pin is connected on the new drive and not on the old drive. I then switched to the 20k Ohm setting and those reading are also different from new drive to the old one.
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Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DemBones
I just received my wire today so I thought I would post some pictures. When I called Igus and told them what I was looking for and gave them the part number I was supplied by mactec54, they suggested a CF140-15-04 instead. It was less expensive so I went with his recommendation. I didn't ground the Mach3 board because mactec54 was going to check on if it was needed. So I am waiting for his reply to go forward with that ground. I also didn't see where to ground the stepper drivers so those where not grounded as well but the transformer and the VFD were and I upgraded the ground to a 10 gauge from the house.
I also received my new spindle and made a quick movie of the unpacking and putting the meter to it.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Zs...lFbUCLeKKmh-vd This is of the old drive
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Jd...ZC-9AT0mTOVqNv This is of the new drive
Not sure what I am looking for because if I have the sound on to show continuity then every pin is connected on the new drive and not on the old drive. I then switched to the 20k Ohm setting and those reading are also different from new drive to the old one.
You can not Ground shields like you have done , so hope you have plenty of cable length, Yes that cable is ok but not as good as the one I quoted, I have tested them all so there are some quite different results with the different cables
This is how you Ground a Shield it is directly clamped to your Ground plane The metal plate that everything is mounted on, you want this as close to the VFD Drive as possible, only remove enough insolation as needed to connect the wirers
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Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
All 3 pins should have have continuity between them , but not to Ground the spindle body, Pin 4 =Ground should have continuity to the spindle body if not then it will have to be fixed inside the top cover of the spindle
Double check your spindle and see if you can not have your fingers touching the probe ends as this will give you false readings try to use some different meter leads with clamps if you can something like this will work, if you get some clamps make sure they will fit your meter plugs most are the same but there are some that are different
Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
How do you ground the shield within the plug at the spindle?
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Re: 3Kw 220V spindle issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DemBones
How do you ground the shield within the plug at the spindle?
Yes these Plugs are not designed for shielded cable use, it can be done with the clamp at the top of the plug, this is not ideal and I don't recommend doing it this way, You would need a different Plug to Ground the Shield in the Plug, just connect all 4 wires checking that the Ground is connected in your spindle with a Continuity test, if it is not that will have to be fixed as below
The easiest way is with a clamp mounted somewhere near the spindle Plug, it can be clamped to the Spindle mount or any where in that area back plate that the spindle is mounted to
Only clear just enough insolation for the clamp to fit around the shield
